--- Log opened Wed Nov 04 00:00:31 2009
00:11 < pixelgeek> email to packman team sent. 
00:16 < nikitakit_> bye
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--- Log closed Wed Nov 04 01:00:15 2009
--- Log opened Wed Nov 04 01:06:12 2009
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21:42 < genete> good evening
21:43 < genete> I have a crazy idea not related to synfig directly but interesting I think...
21:45 < genete> when you are drawing with a raster design program (i.e. Gimp, Krita) the information that goes from your had to the program passes through a human device interface (wacom).
21:46 < genete> at the end, the information that Gimp receives from each stroke is a poly line with a pressure value on each vertex. 
21:48 < genete> then based on the current brush/tool, it s size and the canvas resolution it produces a set of pixels that are stores in the image.
21:50 < genete> why don't remember those poly lines and press pressure to produce different results at render time? For example you can select other brush type and other canvas/brush size. In this way it can be rendered at different sizes later or at different styles (inlcuding 
21:50 < genete> including different color, blend method etc.
21:51 < wall[e]> that's a cool idea, i think corel paint is doing that.
21:52 < wall[e]> mypaint too, i think.
21:52 < genete> oh I though I was innovating! ;-)
21:53 < genete> same can be done in Synfig
21:53 < genete> but towards its Draw tool
21:53 < genete> why discard the master stroke immediately?
21:54 < genete> keep it and the user can test different smoothness later and select the more appropiate value
21:54 < wall[e]> :)
21:54 < genete> I hate to delete a good stroke only because I selected the smooth value wrongly
21:54 < genete> can be that interesting?
21:55 < wall[e]> i was working on similar concept by converting the wacom events into blender ipo
21:57 < wall[e]> then screencast the gimp screen so i can have my character act like drawing on to the texture.
22:25 < rore> genete: IIRC and if I read it correctly, this is somewhat planned for gimp in the future
22:25 < rore> (the possibility to edit a stroke - and then I guess the possibility to change the paint tool)
22:26 < genete> so I'm not in the wrong path really
22:29 < rore> and earlier today someone on #gimp showed some of the way vectors work in the SAI software http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5991/saivector.png 
22:29 < rore> the bottom part is interesting
22:30 < genete> what do you think on have that in Synfig?
22:30 < rore> basicaly it has the "width" control like synfig, but it looks more like a painting and can be easily "cut"
22:31 < rore> genete: a "brush" that can be changed for the strokes?
22:31 < rore> (because, the rest, we already have, no? :) )
22:32 < genete> no. When you use the Draw tool the wacom stroke is immediately interpreted based on Draw tool settings. I want to keep the stroke and be able to re-interpret it with different Draw tool settings 
22:33 < genete> so I can select the one that fits better to my desire and not need to redo the stroke again
22:33 < genete> (I usually cannot repeat a good stroke due to my blind artistic brain)
22:35 < rore> maybe that's because I don't have a tablet, I don't get it. Synfig keeps the stroke as a path and you can change the witdh/color the way you want already.
22:35 < genete> The process is this: 
22:36 < genete> You do a stroke with your input device
22:36 < genete> then the interface sends a poly line with its corresponding width values to Synfig
22:37 < genete> Then Synfig interprets and convert that stroke (hundred of points) into a few vertexes that represent the bezier. 
22:38 < genete> the vertexes lie on the poly line but the amount of vertexes and its corresponding tangents depends on the current Draw tool settings.
22:38 < genete> ONCE converted to bline you can modify it, yes
22:39 < rore> but the bezier fits very well what is already drawn, so do we really need to keep track of the hundred of points?
22:39 < genete> but it is tedious to change what Synfig interpreted based on your initial poly line
22:39 < genete> fits very well, "sometimes"
22:39 < genete> it depends a lot of on the settings and the stroke speed 
22:40 < genete> if you don't have wacom you cannot understand properly I think
22:40 < genete> but how do you draw in Gimp without a tablet??????
22:40 < rore> (woaa, I never noticed that with the draw tool, if a drawing starts over a vertex, it's automagically linked to it)
22:40 < genete> hahaha
22:40 < rore> genete: with Bezier \o/ :) 
22:40 < genete> all the time??
22:41 < rore> I never use the draw tool in synfig, too messy, too much vertex
22:41 < rore> well, no, I sometimes manage to draw with the mouse and a regular paint tool :)
22:42  * genete throws a wacom bamboo to rore for Christmas 
22:42 < rore> and I even recently switched to inkscape for the path/bezier thing, even if I don't really like their (rather stupid) shortcuts
22:43 < rore> http://rore.dyndns.org/rore/vrac/chouette4.jpg all vector & mouse :p Well ok, not the textures :) 
22:44 < genete> incredible. The day you get a wacom you'll be the number one
22:45 < genete> so everything with Paths?
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22:49 < wall[e]> nice owl!
22:49 < rore_> genete: every object with path (the body of the owl = one object, the beak = another object, etc.) 
22:50 < genete> and its corresponding layer, etc. awesome
22:51 < genete> so you have to hate the synfig tangent handlers. They differ a lot from Gimp one or Inkscape ones
22:51 < genete> s/handlers/ducks :-P
22:52 < rore_> yep :p They can't be smooth but asymetric, this is hell :D
22:53 < rore_> but actually, this is the only problem I have with synfig ducks
22:54 < genete> hopefully that can change one of those days
22:54 < genete> I wish more control on angles linking lengths and others
22:54 < rore_> appart from that, they're nice, even if in the beginning, the little dotted line that is drawn before the "real" drawing feels weird
22:55 < rore_> (I wish inkscape had vertex-linking :) )
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23:48 < pixelgeek> bye genete!
--- Log closed Thu Nov 05 00:00:31 2009