--- Log opened Wed Jun 24 00:00:34 2009
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00:29 < CIA-45> synfig: Carlos Lopez  genete_canvasview * rd20da1a857 synfig/synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (4 files): Initial trial of toggle ducks dial. Needs re factoring to toggle buttons and place them in the top of the window.
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03:07 < ghosthand> can you scale a radial gradient to make it oval?
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03:22 < pi7xelgeek> hi ghosthand 
03:22 < pi7xelgeek> I don't think you can use the scale tool to make it oval.
03:22 < pi7xelgeek> You could get the same effect by using a warp layer on top
03:22 < pi7xelgeek> though
03:23 < ghosthand> warp layer? have to look into it. thanks.
03:24 < pi7xelgeek> I can't remember if you can use the circle tool to create a gradient curve, but if it does, you could scale that...
03:24 < pi7xelgeek> but the radial gradient is pretty much radial :)
03:36 < ghosthand> out of curiosity, how many developer actively work on synfig?
03:39 < pi7xelgeek> That depends on your definition of 'actively' (and 'work' and 'developer' for that matter)
03:40 < pi7xelgeek> a number >0
03:40 < pi7xelgeek> but probably less than 10 on a regular basis
04:46 < pi7xelgeek> benGREEN: Are you seeing spam on the devl list or the user list?
04:46 < pi7xelgeek> I'm bouncing all the spam that is coming from non-list-member email addresses
04:46 < pi7xelgeek> I'm not subscribed to the user list tho
04:48 < pi7xelgeek> Ah - user has problems....  
04:48 < pi7xelgeek> hmmm
05:12 < ghosthand> i have a background image of a hallway..
05:12 < ghosthand> i want to have an object appear to be coming around the corner.
05:13  * pi7xelgeek nods
05:13 < ghosthand> is there a way to set up an invisible mask to make it seem like coming around the corner.
05:13 < pi7xelgeek> yes
05:14 < pi7xelgeek> set up a layer with a region that masks and choose the blend mode to be 'Alpha Over'
05:14 < ghosthand> ahh.  many thanks. i will try it.
05:14 < pi7xelgeek> It'll make anything under that layer (i.e. your object) be hidden
05:15 < pi7xelgeek> Don't forget to encapsulate the alpha mask and the object - or otherwise, you'll render the background invisible too
05:18 < pi7xelgeek> benGREEN: I'm sorry - I can't see anyway to block the spam.  The settings between devl & user lists seem identical.
05:18 < pi7xelgeek> Some emails get flagged for disposition by either list, but I can't see anyway to ramp up the filters
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05:55 < pi7xelgeek> benGREEN: Aha!  Success!  I think I found the missing option.  
05:55 < pi7xelgeek> All non-member mail should now be held for moderation on the user list (it was already set for the developer list)
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06:34 < pi7xelgeek> OK - I've been deleting SPAM for the last half hour.  I think https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=synfig-user is looking pretty clean now, except for one header on June 20th which seems to want to stick around
06:34 < pi7xelgeek> You shouldn't be able to read it though.
06:40 < pi7xelgeek> Sorry genete, I'm not going to get to play with git tonight.
07:17 < pi7xelgeek> 'night all
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12:04 < genete> wahea!
12:05 < genete> !quote
12:05 < pixelbot> 00:48 < dooglus> the problem with the "2 canvases not deleted" is more annoying to track down - it's reference counted; each canvas counts how many objects are using it, and it deletes itself when nobody is using it any more. 00:48 < genete> hope that the code were easier than its explanation... lol
12:05 < genete> I love that one! :)
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12:42 < Yoyobuae> would it be useful to be able to embed external stuff (images, fonts, etc) inside SIF files?
12:44 < Yoyobuae> maybe we could get away with base64'ing the data and putting it in SIF directly
12:45 < Yoyobuae> then when it gets gzipped, the overhead base64 has (33% extra size) disappears
12:48 < Yoyobuae> well it nearly disappears: 1000000 bytes of random data ---base64--> 1333932 bytes base64 encoded ---gzip--> 1009710 bytes
12:48 < Yoyobuae> its pretty neat that gzip is that effective =)
12:55 < genete> Yoyobuae: what's the adventage from insert an external reference?
12:55 < genete> Zelgadis: did you build genete_canvasview branch? 
12:56 < Yoyobuae> genete: a single SIF file, vs SIF+Image file+etc
12:57 < Yoyobuae> that way the source files will never get lost
12:57 < genete> but you can alter the image content just by renaming the external file without touch the sif file at all.
12:57 < Yoyobuae> external reference may break if the file is moved/deleted
12:58 < genete> zip them all to not loose :)
12:58 < Yoyobuae> yes, both approaches have their benefits
12:58 < genete> :) yeah
12:58 < Yoyobuae> but SIFZ is ALREADY zipped =)
12:59 < Yoyobuae> I guess the idea is that if the external files no longer need modification, then they can be embedded into SIF
12:59 < Yoyobuae> if the files will need editting in the future then keep the external references
13:00 < genete> so hands on work Yoyobuae! go for it! ;)
13:01 < Yoyobuae> hehe =)
13:02 < genete> Consider that I agree 99% of the time with your proposals but I always face you as I were against (to make you thinkg or improve the issue), so if you like it, do it! :)
13:02 < genete> s/thinkg/think
13:08  * genete wonders if Yoyobuae wonders what's that 1% ;)
13:13 < Yoyobuae> yeah, i was thinking the same, the vector objects thing maybe? =P
13:17 < genete> vector objects are 80% of your proposals :), bah,  I was just giving me some room for discrepance ;)
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14:59 < genete> bye idlers
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16:57 < ricardograca> How doing Genete?
16:58 < genete> hey
16:58 < genete> I was reading about opensoftware in my city :)
16:59 < ricardograca> Good! Here I am preparing a workshop, as I told you, about animation using open source soft
17:01 < ricardograca> the event link is:http://gnugraf.org/
17:01 < ricardograca> I'll talk about pencil, Blender and synfig
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17:02 < genete_> did I miss something? 
17:02 < genete_> ow! I'm with other username :)
17:02 -!- genete_ is now known as genete
17:02 < ricardograca> I was talking about the event here in Brazil, Rio de Janeiro
17:03 < genete> let me check the logs
17:03 < ricardograca> ok
17:04 < genete> cool! if you need material or any kind of help let me know!
17:04 < ricardograca> Ok, for now, I need to know some information about synfig development, can I ask it now?
17:05 < ricardograca> In fact it's just one question
17:06 < genete> ahem* ask and we will answer, ...eventually!
17:06 < ricardograca> ok, About the bones feature, are we going to have it?
17:07 < genete> not in a short time
17:07 < genete> I don't have enough knowledge to carry on with the current devel.
17:07 < ricardograca> I am asking this because the students are asking this a lot
17:08 < genete> maybe I start other approaching using same background but less ambitious
17:08 < ricardograca> In college they use anime studio and flash
17:08 < ricardograca> ok, no problem
17:08 < ricardograca> I can use synfig as it is
17:08 < ricardograca> the problem is to reach the others 
17:08 < genete> it is possible to use now but very difficulty and slow, not for production
17:08 < ricardograca> Ok, I understand
17:08 < genete> which others? the othres applications?
17:09 < ricardograca> No, the others animators and students
17:09 < ricardograca> this workshop will happen in a university
17:09 < genete> to make them use synfig you mean
17:09 < ricardograca> yes, that's it
17:10 < ricardograca> the workshop will be presented to the visual arts students
17:10 < genete> I've just asked to Cadiz University for support on a workshop I can eventually do about synfig. 
17:10 < ricardograca> they use there: 3d max and anime studio + flash cs4
17:10 < ricardograca> It's good!
17:11 < ricardograca> I think one big problem is the help material
17:11 < genete> ricardograca: I hope you can install and use the latest version I'm developing (it has more visual atractive)
17:11 < genete> I think that Zelgadis can do a universal package that you can carry there
17:12 < ricardograca> oh, it would be great
17:12 < ricardograca> but will it work under ubuntu 8.04?
17:12  * genete searching a screenshot
17:12 < ricardograca> that's what I use here
17:12 < genete> sure, Zelgadis is building it to be the most backward compatible as possible
17:13 < ricardograca> good...
17:13 < ricardograca> I am using the latest version
17:13 < ricardograca> 0.61.09
17:14 < ricardograca> it's a nice one, but if you have a better one...it's fine
17:15 < genete> I'm searching the imagebin I did...
17:15 < ricardograca> ok, no problem 
17:17 < genete> http://imagebin.org/53433
17:17 < ricardograca> I am opening
17:18 < genete> as you can see there are new navigation buttons (thanks Gerco) I' added the play button (yes it is slow but hey!) and the next previous keyframe (the blue ones)
17:19 < ricardograca> yes, that's good..
17:19 < genete> also I've fixed the horizontal scroll bar (it rendered badly) and moved the time entry to a proper place
17:20 < ricardograca> I see
17:20 < genete> I'm working now on a toggle ducks dial to visually control what ducks are visible
17:20 < genete> also I want to incorporate the quality preview as the pixelsize selection as dropdown combo boxes
17:20 < ricardograca> humm! That sounds good
17:21 < genete> Also (but I believe you cannot have it for the conference) I want to expand the current caret menu to a classic one
17:21 < ricardograca> Ok, no problem, I can work with what I have now
17:21 < genete> the caret menu save space but is worst for non experienced users and eve slow for experienced
17:22 < ricardograca> yes, I think that we could have more related help, I don't know..because people complain about.." what thing do what?"
17:23 < genete> yes, right click menu is good but it should be also be possible to do with standard menus or buttons
17:24 < ricardograca> Yes, well, as I told you, this short movie I am building will be a good oportunity for me to write a good material about synfig
17:24 < ricardograca> I'll do it
17:24 < genete> for example, the normal tool says in the tool option: this tool has not options. False! you can do a lot of things by keyboard combination!
17:25 < genete> yes, doing animations is another way to help synfig
17:26 < genete> ricardograca: have you traced some of your drawings in synfig?
17:26 < ricardograca> Yes, that's it! I hope to finish this animation until I present this workshop
17:27 < ricardograca> some drawings yes, but the major ones in inkscape
17:27 < ricardograca> I'll send you some drawings made directly in synfig with tablet 
17:27 < ricardograca> they are very good ones
17:28 < genete> did you know that you can split the tangents by pressing SHIFT and draging one of them?
17:28 < ricardograca> yes, I discovered that
17:28 < ricardograca> heheh, alone
17:28 < genete> if they are good paste them in the Gallery. It is open for that!
17:28 < genete> that option should be informed in the options panel!
17:29 < ricardograca> ok, I'll doit, I'll sent it to the gallery
17:29 < ricardograca> yes, this should be informed in the options
17:31 < ricardograca> that's what I'll try to write to distribute with the final animation
17:31 < ricardograca> As you wrote in a post once..synfig is powerfull, yes, it is
17:32 < ricardograca> but the documentation is poor 
17:32 < genete> not so poor but bad organised
17:32 < genete> there are lots of good pages in the wiki but not easy to find
17:33 < ricardograca> I know, I had to do a lot of search to find what I want
17:33 < genete> some of them are oudated, etc. ...
17:34 < genete> so much information and few people working on...
17:34 < ricardograca> I know, I know, I'l try to contribute more by now
17:35 < ricardograca> As I told you, first I need to understand more about the program, than..do a short to learn more and more, and test the soft...
17:35 < genete> don't worry, animation is very high time consuming (animation or developing or documenting, or....)
17:35 < genete> I can (want) help you on anything you need to know or to achieve with the program
17:36 < ricardograca> Ok, thanks...If I need I'll ask, don't worry; I want this animation to be a good one
17:36 < ricardograca> And share this with the synfig comunity
17:36 < ricardograca> it's a very short one, about 3 minutes, not more
17:37 < ricardograca> but very time consuming
17:37 < genete> with your artist abilities you should do the animation directly in synfig. 
17:37 < Yoyobuae> "time consuming"
17:37 < Yoyobuae> its always the same problem
17:37 < genete> Shhhhttt!
17:37 < ricardograca> Yes, I am trying....
17:38 < genete> Yoyobuae: don't consume your time complaining! Do it! :)
17:38 < ricardograca> The next drawings will be directly with the tablet, by the way, the tablet works very well with synfig
17:38 < ricardograca> Yes, I am doing
17:38 < ricardograca> 2 times a week
17:39 < ricardograca> The tablet, the presure control...great
17:39 < genete> but you draw directly or trace a previous image?
17:40 < ricardograca> But maybe we should have a workspace just for drawings, as in blender ( workspace: model, animate, edit... )
17:40 < ricardograca> It would help
17:40 < ricardograca> directly
17:41 < ricardograca> free hand drawing
17:41 < genete> becareful
17:41 < ricardograca> what's the problem?
17:42 < genete> it is great have good drawings with the tablet but remember that you have to animate the result. If you plan to do a cutout animation it is fine but if the animation has morphing you are in troubles
17:42 < genete> because you have to draw "thinking" on morphing
17:43 < Yoyobuae> yep, that's usually the part when most would be synfig animations die
17:44 < Yoyobuae> beautiful drawings, but static
17:44 < genete> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhpuZAqgizI
17:45 < genete> ricardograca: look the video. I can have drawn the woman head in other way but she was prepared to do a head turn without much problems
17:45 < ricardograca> Oh, yes, I know this, no problem..as I told you, I worked with anime studio in the past
17:45 < ricardograca> after drawing I adjust the dots
17:45 < genete> ok, so keep that in mind :)
17:46 < genete> btw, what's your nick in AS forum?
17:46 < ricardograca> and synfig has a detail control, I always put it in the minimum
17:46 < ricardograca> I am not in anime studio forum
17:46 < genete> ok
17:46 < ricardograca> I never was there
17:46 < genete> good, stick here better :)
17:47 < ricardograca> hehe, ok, I'll be here
17:47 < genete> I have some friends there and have learn a lot about animation in the forum
17:47 < ricardograca> How can I send you from here a file?
17:47 < ricardograca> is that possible?
17:47 < genete> better no. I'm not at home.
17:47 < ricardograca> ok, no problem
17:47 < genete> send me the file to my email. It is in the forum I think
17:47 < ricardograca> I'll post in the forum later
17:48 < genete> anyway it is much better to place it in the forum directly (unless you want to not publish it)
17:48 < ricardograca> I no, I can publish it
17:48 < ricardograca> it's a boy that I will not use
17:48 < ricardograca> I can post there, no problem
17:49 < ricardograca> I'll do it until the end of the day
17:49 < genete> ok
17:49 < ricardograca> all the drawing mande directally in synfig with tablet
17:49 < ricardograca> a nice result
17:49 < genete> great
17:50 < ricardograca> Another question?
17:50 < genete> sure
17:50 < ricardograca> sorry!
17:50 < genete> np
17:50 < ricardograca> when I draw directly, synfig creates a line layer and a fill layer, right?
17:51 < ricardograca> is there a way to encapsulate then automatically? Because as it is I have to many layers and objects ..this drives me crazy
17:52 < genete> I don't remember if there is an option for that in the tool option panel
17:53 < ricardograca> I think no...
17:53 < ricardograca> ok , no problem
17:53 < genete> and I guess that if you press the encapsulate button for the recently draw layers the normal tool will be selected.
17:54 < ricardograca> I'll test it later
17:54 < genete> it never can be an option. because you have to decide when to encapsulate (if not each pair of layers are going to be encapsulated) 
17:55 < genete> it could be a action button. I said "could be" not "can be" :)
17:55 < ricardograca> ok, it was just a question..I have to many objects for each limb
17:55 < ricardograca> ok
17:56 < genete> you can draw them all and the encapsulate later
17:56 < ricardograca> yes, that's what I am doing now
17:56 < ricardograca> no problem too
17:57 < genete> but hey!, experienced users have to be listen on their drawback on the workflow. If we want to improve synfig! :)
17:57 < ricardograca> yes, that's it!
17:58 < genete> how do you deal with the sharp corners of your drawings and the tablet? I never know if the tablet would understand a rounded or sharp corner
17:59 < ricardograca> it's always rounded
17:59 < genete> and do you draw slow or fast, because I have the feeling that if I draw slow the drawing is worse and if I draw fast it is not controlled. xD
17:59 < genete> I've achieved peak corners if the storke is fast enough
18:00 < genete> :) related to the above said =)
18:00 < ricardograca> hahah, I try to draw as I draw normally, but of course, I needed to find a good speed to use the tablet
18:01 < ricardograca> but I change the tool option..let me see here
18:01 < genete> did you use the "fill outlines" option. I mean, using CTRL you can fill the space of two outlines by passing onto the existing vertices
18:02 < genete> it works if the outlines are drawn in the proper clock count direction to be filled
18:02 < ricardograca> Another discovery!!!
18:02 < ricardograca> hahah
18:02 < genete> which?
18:03 < ricardograca> fill outlines
18:03 < ricardograca> When I draw the drawing is automatically filled
18:03 < ricardograca> "create region bline" option enabled I think
18:04 < genete> yes, and what's the discovery?
18:04 < ricardograca> "...using CTRL you can fill the space of two outlines by passing onto the existing vertices" 
18:04 < genete> yes, but "it works if the outlines are drawn in the proper clock count direction to be filled"
18:04 < ricardograca> It's new for me
18:04 < ricardograca> I never used this
18:05 < ricardograca> ok, understand now
18:06 < ricardograca> I'l lsend you  a link to an image
18:06  * genete leaving in 7 minutes :)
18:06 < ricardograca> ok, I'll be fast..
18:06 < genete> did you know that one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LLhrlKJETU
18:07 < ricardograca> http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/ricardograca/guri.png
18:07 < ricardograca> all drawed inside synfig
18:08 < ricardograca> I saw this animation, very good
18:08 < ricardograca> you worked only with vector deformation right?
18:08 < genete> right
18:09 < ricardograca> very cool
18:09 < ricardograca> Pro!
18:09 < genete> I think that sifz file is available
18:09 < ricardograca> Yes, I think so
18:10 < ricardograca> I reading a lot about that projec..morevna, I think
18:10 < ricardograca> A nice project, ambicious!
18:10  * genete waiting the image link :)
18:11 < genete> oops
18:11 < genete> missed it!
18:11 < genete> lol
18:11 < genete> coool
18:11 < genete> can you show me the layers panel?
18:12 < ricardograca> yes, wait...
18:13 < genete> or I'll look at it if you poste in the forum...
18:13 < ricardograca> ok, I can post in the forum
18:13 < ricardograca> but if you want I can show it now with an image
18:14 < genete> whatever
18:15 < ricardograca> http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/ricardograca/guri2.png
18:16 < ricardograca> I'll send the file to the forum
18:17 < ricardograca> can you see the "crazy" layer panel?
18:17 < genete> looks good, And did you obtain those blines with the draw tool?
18:18 < ricardograca> Yes, but it was not a good experience, I wast a lot of time adjusting and deleting points
18:19 < ricardograca> maybe now, I can do a reference drawing, and then create the vector lines with the bezier tool
18:19 < genete> for that kind of work it is better to use the bline tool. Draw the straight way
18:19 < ricardograca> I'll spend less time
18:20 < ricardograca> yes, I'll do it
18:20 < genete> also you have to use to work with looooooot of layers! even encapsulated there will be hundreds! :)
18:20 < ricardograca> but I needed to test it
18:20 < ricardograca> yes, too many of then
18:21 < ricardograca> and with a "skeleton" order
18:21 < ricardograca> the body> limbs> hands> fingers
18:21 < genete> yeah
18:21 < ricardograca> This one is seted
18:22 < genete> hey man, I need to go :)
18:22 < ricardograca> Ok, bye
18:22 < ricardograca> I'll post the files
18:22 < genete> see you!
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20:33 < CIA-45> synfig: Carlos Lopez  genete_setup_dialog * r13674a3200 synfig/synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/dialog_setup.cpp: Reformat code a bit. No changes.
20:33 < CIA-45> synfig: Carlos Lopez  genete_setup_dialog * r961f6306c4 synfig/synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/dialog_setup.cpp: Do not use localised decimal separators for float number strings.
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23:02 < CIA-45> synfig: Carlos Lopez  genete_canvasview * r90e04194d7 synfig/synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (canvasview.cpp canvasview.h): Deprecate intermediate Gtk::Table variable 'table'. Not needed.
23:02 < CIA-45> synfig: Carlos Lopez  genete_canvasview * r94a2be97d7 synfig/synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (canvasview.cpp toggleducksdial.cpp toggleducksdial.h): Use Toggle buttons instead of Buttons for toggle ducks.
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--- Log closed Thu Jun 25 00:00:35 2009