--- Log opened Tue Feb 19 00:00:00 2008
--- Day changed Tue Feb 19 2008
00:00 < Yoyobuae> and then if things get really messy, indentation helps even further
00:01 < Yoyobuae> if you ever played with STL's function objects, indentation is a must there XD
00:02 < dooglus> grrr
00:02 < dooglus> from the code:
00:02 < dooglus> #define SYNFIG_OPTIMIZE_LAYER_TREE 1
00:03 < dooglus> how did I attempt to switch off optimization?
00:03 < dooglus> #define SYNFIG_OPTIMIZE_LAYER_TREE 0
00:03 < dooglus> #ifdef is still true though...
00:03 < pixelgeek> :)  even I can follow that!
00:04 < Yoyobuae> lol, nice one
00:04 < dooglus> the code would be better without the number
00:04 < dooglus> it makes it look like changing the 1 to a 0 will toggle the effect
00:04 < Yoyobuae> seems you need a bit of #undef magic =)
00:05 < Yoyobuae> well, whoever wrote that code should be thinking "GOTCHA!!" right now =)
00:08 < Yoyobuae> would it be possible to make synfig studio remember canvas window's position, size and, if possible, zoom level?
00:08 < dooglus> yes :)
00:08 < dooglus> but there are lots of canvas windows...
00:08 < pixelgeek> +1 Yoyobuae 
00:08 < Yoyobuae> maybe keep track of the file/canvas id combination?
00:09 < dooglus> ?
00:09 < dooglus> for each canvas of each file, remember its size & zoom level?
00:09 < dooglus> in the .sif file?
00:09 < Yoyobuae> no
00:10 < Yoyobuae> in synfig studio
00:10 < Yoyobuae> more like remember the recent files only
00:10 < Yoyobuae> maybe attach the information to the recent file list itself
00:11 < dooglus> ~/.synfig/recentfiles
00:11 < dooglus> I guess so
00:11 < Yoyobuae> yeah
00:11 < dooglus> if I can get these 3 circles moving separately,
00:11 < dooglus> it would open a whole new world
00:12 < Yoyobuae>  -quote by Genete
00:12 < genete> heh!
00:13 < genete> dooglus: width ducks for exported Blines seems to be buggy.
00:14 < dooglus> genete: they're strange, but I don't think it's a bug
00:14 < genete> create a Bline and export the Vertices list param. Select the exported Valuenode and show the widht ducks.
00:14 < dooglus> genete: exported blines don't have a width
00:14 < genete> ??
00:15 < dooglus> genete: the 'width' you're used to seeing is part of the outline layer
00:15 < dooglus> if you export a bline, it's separated from that width
00:15 < dooglus> so how wide should it be shown?
00:16 < genete> the width ducks would be shown if the bline holds it
00:16 < dooglus> blinepoints have a width
00:16 < dooglus> and outlines have a width
00:16 < dooglus> but blines don't
00:17 < dooglus> one exported bline can be used in 2 different outlines, of 2 different widths
00:17 < dooglus> so how wide is the bline?
00:17 < genete> so what does mean those radious ducks I see?
00:17 < dooglus> they're showing the width of the blinepoints
00:18 < dooglus> but I guess it depends what units you're using as to what numbers you see?
00:18 < genete> 380pt and so
00:18 < dooglus> 30pt?
00:19 < dooglus> 30pt is half a unit
00:19 < Yoyobuae> why not show the "Real" value
00:19 < dooglus> the real value is 1
00:19 < dooglus> 1u
00:19 < dooglus> 60pt
00:19 < dooglus> 60px
00:20 < Yoyobuae> thats the only thing that make sense showing
00:20 < dooglus> that's what it shows
00:20 < genete> it is weird. If I select the outline and the exported bline the width ducks are scaled but the real width is ok
00:21 < genete> if I unselec the exported bline the it comes back to normal size
00:21 < genete> it is weird because it shows the same unit for both ducks 
00:21 < genete> but numnbers are different
00:22 < dooglus> because the outline is scaled by its width, and the bline isn't
00:22 < genete> I see
00:22 < dooglus> for an outline, each width duck is (blinepoint's width) times (outline's width)
00:22 < dooglus> set the outline's width to 60px = 1u
00:22 < dooglus> do the numbers match up then?
00:23 < genete> it is a good way to fine tune the width of outlines :)
00:23 < dooglus> always seeing the positive side :)
00:23 < genete> yup, it matches! :)
00:23 < dooglus> I find that if you set the units to "units" then things tend to make a bit more sense
00:24 < dooglus> for example, an outline of width "1 unit" isn't scaled...
00:24 < dooglus> if you export a real, like 'feather', and check its value in the child panel, it will be a different number
00:24 < dooglus> unless you use 'units'
00:25 < genete> yes
00:25 < Yoyobuae> i guess the other unit makes sense when you want to make something of a specific size, once it's rendered
00:26 < dooglus> I never remember which units are affected by DPI either
00:26 < genete> dooglus: take a look to the "select_all_child_layers" icon when have time. :)
00:26 < genete> I'ce sent a patch
00:26 < genete> bed time now
00:27 < genete> also I've made a new "How Do I?" item: Dashed outlines.
00:27 < dooglus> http://synfig.org/Unit_System
00:27 < dooglus> genete: thanks.
00:27 < dooglus> goodnight :)
00:28 < genete> night
00:28 -!- genete [n=Genete@84.122.49.193.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit ["Abandonando"]
00:30 < dooglus> cm,m,mm,in,pt all have a fixed conversion rate
00:30 < dooglus> as do 'u' and 'px' (1u = 60px)
00:31 < dooglus> those 2 groups change relative to each other, according to the DPI (px per in) setting
00:31 < dooglus> I think that's true
00:34 < dooglus> Yoyobuae: I think maybe I've just understood the very first point you made about the pastecanvas code...
00:35 < Yoyobuae> dooglus: maybe i should've been more explicit. the fact that the order of the operation is what causes the current behavior
00:36 < dooglus> Yoyobuae: amongst other bugs, yes :)
00:36 < dooglus> Yoyobuae: the optimize_layers() thing is causing problems too apparently
00:36 -!- factor [n=Factor@32.144.79.118] has quit ["mIRGGI meni puis"]
00:37 < Yoyobuae> oh, i see
00:37 < dooglus> but yes, setting up the subcanvas time, then rendering the stuff under us, then rendering the subcanvas isn't right - 'cos the stuff under us can undo the times that were set up
00:39 < dooglus> there's no reason I can see not to move the canvas->set_time() under the context->acc_rel() is there?
00:39 < dooglus> acc_render()
00:42 < dooglus> hey, it worked: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/3layers.gif
00:42 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/3layers.sifz
01:10 -!- Yoyobuae_ [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
01:10 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
01:10 -!- Yoyobuae_ is now known as Yoyobuae
01:11 < Yoyobuae> dooglus: nice =)
01:13 < Yoyobuae> dooglus: i was looking into having synfig studio remember canvas window position/sizes/zoom
01:45 < dooglus> Yoyobuae: I found 2 problems
01:46 < dooglus> Yoyobuae: first, the one you mentioned - setting the time before rendering the context allows the context to overwrite the time
01:46 < dooglus> but also, optimize_layers is making a copy of the pastecanvas but not copying the 'curr_time' member (because it's not a parameter)
01:47 < dooglus> I don't know whether it's best to make it a hidden parameter, or to add get() and set() methods to allow optimize_layers() to copy it directly
01:47 < dooglus> both work - probably making it a hidden parameter is nicer
01:48 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/patch.txt
01:52 < Yoyobuae> good =)
01:52 < dooglus> what about the canvas size saving?
02:01 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1752 /synfig-core/trunk/src/synfig/ (target_scanline.cpp target_tile.cpp): Use "#define XXX" not "#define XXX 1" for flags we're going to test with "#ifdef", or I get tricked into thinking that changing the "1" to a "0" will disable the feature.
02:01 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1753 /synfig-core/trunk/src/synfig/layer_pastecanvas.cpp: Fix 1896557. Allow a subcanvas to be used multiple times at different time offsets.
02:01 < Yoyobuae> i was thinking of using the same code that manages the recent file list
02:02 < Yoyobuae> adding the saving and loading of position, sizes and zoom values
02:02 < dooglus> makes sense
02:02 < dooglus> I guess you want to make sure that existing files (without size info) will still parse OK
02:03 < Yoyobuae> if i want to set or get the position and size of a canvas window, can i simply use Gtk::Window functions on the CanvasView?
02:03 < Yoyobuae> CanvasView inherits from Gtk::Window
02:06 < Yoyobuae> dooglus: also the "recentfiles" file is simply a list of filenames, one on each line
02:08 < dooglus> it was possible to re-use exported canvases with a time-shift before this fix, using the 'dup' layer: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/2layers-dup.sifz
02:09 < dooglus> you should be able to just use the Gtk::Window methods, yes.  that's all the panel windows do to save their position and size
02:09 < dooglus> one thing though - it doesn't really work very well
02:09 < dooglus> because the window manager doesn't put the windows where it's told to
02:10 < dooglus> it's off by a pixel or two each time, so the windows very slowly 'walk' across the screen
02:10 < Yoyobuae> hmm
02:11 < dooglus> from the gtkmm docs: "Moreover, nearly all window managers are historically broken with respect to their handling of window gravity. So moving a window to its current position as returned by get_position() tends to result in moving the window slightly. Window managers are slowly getting better over time."
02:11 < Yoyobuae> well, comparing the current position with the last saved position could solve that
02:11 < dooglus> and "If you are saving and restoring your application's window positions, you should know that it's impossible for applications to do this without getting it somewhat wrong because applications do not have sufficient knowledge of window manager state. The Correct Mechanism is to support the session management protocol (see the "GnomeClient" object in the GNOME libraries for example) and allow the window manager to save your window sizes and positions."
02:12 < Yoyobuae> but how to do that portably? =)
02:13 < dooglus> I don't know what the windows port of gtk will do about that
02:13 < Yoyobuae> to solve the windows slowly walking i was thinking we could snap the windows back to the previously saved position, if change is small enough
02:17 < dooglus> or, when starting up, tell the windows where to go, then ask where they are.  calculate the different, and re-position them with the error taken into account
02:18 < dooglus> # fix to stop panels drifting
02:18 < dooglus> export SYNFIG_WINDOW_POSITION_X_OFFSET=1
02:18 < dooglus> export SYNFIG_WINDOW_POSITION_Y_OFFSET=1
02:18 < dooglus> but it doesn't work...
02:18 < dooglus> they still drift
02:18 < dooglus> so I'm off - goodnight, and good luck!  :)
02:18 < Yoyobuae> g'night
02:26 < pixelgeek> I hadn't noticed dialogs walking, had you Yoyobuae ?
02:27 < pixelgeek> Only completely jumping to another dimension, until dooglus  worked around that bug....
02:44 < Yoyobuae> pixelgeek: strangely, mine windows stay still =)
02:44 < Yoyobuae> then again, i don't use a window manager
04:40 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:01 -!- pixelgeek [n=chatzill@c-71-59-140-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
05:09 -!- Netsplit clarke.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: KiBi, Deltafire, timonator, CIA-27
05:10 -!- Netsplit over, joins: timonator, KiBi, Deltafire, CIA-27
07:46 -!- factor [n=factor@ip68-14-160-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #synfig
08:06 -!- Zelgadis [n=zelgadis@87.103.170.132] has joined #synfig
09:06 < dooglus> pabs3: did you copy the comments from synfig.com over into the wiki?  or only the top level posts?
09:06 < dooglus> pabs3: and is there an index to the posts?
09:13 < factor> is synfig compiled into synfig studio
09:13 < dooglus> no
09:13 < factor> do I have to compile synfig as a standalone
09:13 < dooglus> there are 4 things:
09:13 < dooglus> 1) the 'synfig' program
09:13 < dooglus> 2) the 'studio' program
09:13 < dooglus> 3) the 'synfig' library
09:13 < dooglus> 4) the 'studio' library
09:14 < dooglus> to render from the command line, you need (1) and (3)
09:14 < factor> when I type synfig at the prompt I get no response
09:14 < dooglus> to run the gui you need (2), (3), and (4)
09:14 < factor> ahh so I just have the lib
09:14 < factor> ok
09:14 < dooglus> ie. studio doesn't use 'synfig' at all - but it does use the synfig library
09:14 < factor> right
09:14 < factor> good stuff
09:15 < factor> I was wanting to play around with some server side stuff.
09:15 < dooglus> which OS are you using now?  debian testing is it?
09:15 < factor> yup
09:16 < dooglus> I see these packages on my machine:
09:16 < dooglus> ii  libsynfig0     1456-1         synfig library
09:16 < dooglus> ii  libsynfigapp0  1456-1         synfig GUI library
09:16 < dooglus> ii  synfig         1456-1         vector-based 2D animation package
09:16 < dooglus> ii  synfigstudio   1456-1         vector-based 2D animation package (graphical
09:16 < factor> me too
09:16 < factor> and yes it is not installed
09:16 < dooglus> ok, that'll be why then
09:21 < dooglus> ooh, my fix for GNU Emacs to get it to recognize .sifz files got committed:
09:21 < dooglus> 2008-02-11  Chris Moore  <christopher.ian.moore@gmail.com>
09:21 < dooglus> 	* jka-cmpr-hook.el (jka-compr-compression-info-list): Handle .sifz
09:21 < dooglus> 	files, and backup files of same.
09:21 < factor> heh
09:21 < Zelgadis> congratulations :)
09:22 < dooglus> :)
09:22 < dooglus> (why they don't just check the content of the file and notice it's gzipped, I don't know)
09:23 < dooglus> (rename the file to .sifz2 and open it, and you see a binary mess)
09:23 < factor> like the file command
09:24 < dooglus> yes, quite
09:24 < dooglus> or like they do for images.  rename a .jpg file to .sifz2 and it will still display as an image
09:24 < factor> yup
09:25 < dooglus> I switched over to using OpenDNS, 'cos my ISP's DNS service isn't very reliable
09:26 < dooglus> they tell me that my 10th most used domain is wiki.synfig.com
09:26 < dooglus> odd - I updated all my bookmarks a long time ago
09:26 < factor> I alsways make my on dns
09:26 < factor> always ^
09:27 < factor> I used to always like to have my server sitting next to me. but moved around too much
09:27 < factor> bvut now I have ruined my hearing
09:27 < factor> but^
09:28 < factor> faster speed  for colos anyway
09:28 < factor> and vps make it cheap
09:29 < dooglus> vps?
09:29 < factor> virtual private server Xen server type stuff
09:29 < dooglus> oh, ok
09:30 < factor> multi core booting
09:31 < factor> I see synfig has modules , mostly image tpyes
09:31 < factor> does synfig studio have modules as well?
09:33 < dooglus> it does
09:33 < factor> k
09:33 < dooglus> the 'mirror' tool is a module
09:34 < factor> ok I will look at that.
09:34 < dooglus> and the 'palette' dock
09:34 < factor> pallette editor?
09:34 < dooglus> see http://svn.voria.com/code/synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ and search for mod_
09:35 < dooglus> this thing: http://svn.voria.com/code/synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/mod_palette/
09:35 < dooglus> looks like it's 2 docks, "pal_edit" and "pal_browse" (commented out)
09:35 < factor> ok
09:36 < dooglus> I guess it's mostly just a proof of concept - a "look, we can add Docks as modules" thing
09:36 < factor> heh
09:36 < dooglus> in core, modules are input and output targets, and valuenode types
09:36 < dooglus> in studio, modules are tools and docks
09:37 < factor> wellyup would like to add one to studio
09:37 < dooglus> what for?
09:38 < factor> heh
09:38 < factor> for the render to server stuff
09:38 < factor> want to mess around with not only able to show images but to host sifz as well
09:39 < factor> and be able to render a section of animation as needed into a web gif.
09:39 < pabs3> dooglus: only the top level posts, haven't had time to do the comments, most of them won't be needed anyway I imagine
09:39 < dooglus> pabs3: I notice all the links saying "moved to the wiki" use wiki.synfig.com in the url
09:40 < dooglus> pabs3: can those be fixed easily?  or do they have to be edited one-by-one?
09:40 < factor> because I looked around at the storage hosting places they sucks and the image host places not really cool enough just to show pic but to host the source sifz as well
09:40 < pabs3> dooglus: one by one. IMO not worth the effort since wiki.synfig.com redirects all urls to synfig.org
09:41 < factor> so I will mess around with a module for zope to host sifz and images may work for other types of oss progs as well like blender.
09:41 < dooglus> pabs3: I thought the idea was that synfig.com was going away at some point - else why copy the articles over to the wiki, losing the ability to comment?
09:42 < dooglus> factor: that sounds like a 'core' module, not 'studio'?
09:42 < dooglus> I just had a new irssi window appear, saying:
09:43 < dooglus> 09:42 -!- Irssi: Starting query in debian with Closing
09:43 < dooglus> 09:42 <Closing> ZEnet IRC Network - irc.zenet.org - www.zenet.org
09:43 < factor> both
09:43 < dooglus> I wonder what that means.  I don't use ZEnet - and have never heard of it
09:43 < pabs3> sounds like spam to me
09:43 < factor> core for server side rendering with the zope module and studio for a module the would use the server side as a render output
09:43 < dooglus> oh, I see...  a spammer with the name "Closing".  right.  :)
09:44 < factor> render to ... <synfig zope mod url>
09:45 < factor> the core would not need a modification though it would just render the animation or still as is.
09:45 < factor> abd the zope mod would hadle the parmas
09:45 < factor> syndif studio would need the menu mod though or dock
09:45 < pabs3> dooglus: well, one day when we have 50 paid developers, we might use synfig.com to sell merchandise!
09:45 < pabs3> ;)
09:46 < factor> synfig books would be good
09:47 < factor> trying to keep up on it all google is suppose to be at my linux users group this sat.
09:47 < dooglus> genete was talking about writing a synfig book once
09:48 < factor> nice but sucks all my weekend up managing it
09:48 < factor> he could do a good one too I bet
09:49 < pabs3> indeed
09:50 < factor> but anyway was wanting to have a nice way to drop in my dock without much effort. so I can beta test it at will even when I upgrade my snfig
09:51 < pabs3> dooglus: two weeks till the fedora freeze, do you have a list of things you want to get done before we release?
09:53 < factor> but anyway thanks just a thing to mess around with , see if I can get anything done iwth it
09:53 < dooglus> pabs3: nope
09:55 < pabs3> I'm thinking we close the splash competition on the weekend, and do a week-long poll for the winner, then release that weekend or that monday
09:57 < dooglus> sounds good
09:58 < dooglus> I'll stop making scary changes then :)
09:58 < Zelgadis> OK, just mention this in the forum thread
09:58 < pabs3> :) cool
09:58 < pabs3> who hasn't entered yet?
09:58 < Zelgadis> me
09:58 < Zelgadis> planning do entry today
09:59 < pabs3> hmm, also rore, Bombe, omry, timonator, dooglus & pabs
09:59  * pabs3 checks again
09:59 < pabs3> KiBi too!
10:00 < rore> hello :)
10:00 < pabs3> hi rore :)
10:00 < Zelgadis> hi, rore
10:00 < rore> hmm, I doubt KiBi would enter ;)
10:00  * dooglus doubts dooglus would, either
10:00 < rore> hehehe :)
10:00  * pabs3 doubts pabs would, either
10:01 < factor> cool
10:01  * rore will try, just need to find an idea ... 
10:02 < pabs3> so, entries so far are: pixelgeek, ulrik, factor, genete, AkhIL 
10:02 < Zelgadis> me! me too!!! 
10:02 < factor> we need a few more
10:02 < Zelgadis> :)))
10:03 < Zelgadis> I just checking last bugs :)
10:03 < pabs3> indeed factor 
10:05 < factor> well I am off to sleep, catch a few zz anyway before work
10:07 < pabs3> sleep well
10:14 < pabs3> Zelgadis: posted a message to the thread
10:14 < Zelgadis> ok
10:16 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1754 /synfig-studio/trunk/images/select_all_child_layers_icon.sif: Apply 1896518: New icon for 'select all child layers' from genete.
10:18 < pabs3> dooglus: any regressions from .07 you know of?
10:28 < dooglus> pabs3: no
10:28 < pabs3> cool
10:29 < dooglus> I like that new icon from genete
10:29 < dooglus> very simple
11:15 -!- ZanQdo [n=Daniel@201.201.2.22] has joined #synfig
11:45 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1755 synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (layeractionmanager.cpp layeractionmanager.h dock_layers.cpp): Show the 'select all child layers' icon in the layers panel all the time, rather than adding and removing it.
11:47 -!- MangoFusion [n=jamesu@host81-132-205-163.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #synfig
11:53 -!- ZanQdo [n=Daniel@201.201.2.22] has quit ["Adios"]
13:12 < Zelgadis> I have uploaded my entry to the forum. Take a look.
13:13 < Zelgadis> bye!
13:15 -!- Zelgadis [n=zelgadis@87.103.170.132] has quit ["????!"]
13:57 < dooglus> seen in the synfig code:
13:57 < dooglus> if (x) do { ... } while(0);
13:58 < dooglus> any idea why?  how is that any different than:
13:58 < dooglus> if (x) { ... }
13:58 < dooglus> ?
14:07 < pabs3> no different unless it was meant to be changed later
14:17 < factor> cool anime from Zelgadis 
14:22 < dooglus> I wonder whether maybe it had a 'break' inside it at one point
14:23 < dooglus> factor: I see now why he was wanting to know about transparent splash screens :)
14:26 < factor> yeah I remember him talking about that
14:29 < factor> I guess the part where synfig is behind it would have been transparent
14:32  * pabs3 wonders if GTK/X11 even supports that
14:32 < factor> would have to have something like compiz composite mode 
14:36 -!- MangoFusion [n=jamesu@host81-132-205-163.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit []
14:37 -!- MangoFusion [n=jamesu@host81-132-205-163.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #synfig
14:41 < dooglus> factor: I was thinking it would be like this: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/splash.png - but then the version text isn't visible
14:42 < factor> oh ok
14:43 < dooglus> factor: you're thinking more like this?  http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/splash2.png
14:43 < dooglus> ('cos then it's hard to read 'studio')
14:44 < factor> yeah small font
14:53 < factor> off to work
14:53 -!- factor [n=factor@ip68-14-160-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
15:07 < AkhIL> hey. I'm going to do live distro based on puppy linux with preinstalled synfig. Can anyone suggest any host to place iso and puppy packages?
15:10 -!- pabs3 [i=pabs@d122-105-74-150.per9.wa.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["brb"]
15:13 -!- pabs3 [i=pabs@d122-105-74-150.per9.wa.optusnet.com.au] has joined #synfig
15:22 -!- crazy_bus [n=philip@121.218.63.23] has joined #synfig
15:43 -!- MangoFusion [n=jamesu@host81-132-205-163.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit []
15:54 -!- factor [n=Factor@32.144.75.174] has joined #synfig
16:14 -!- genete [n=Genete@84.122.41.232.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #synfig
16:18 -!- crazy_bus [n=philip@121.218.63.23] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
16:24 < genete> dooglus, pabs3: Have you got in mind to add any new string for translation?
16:25 < genete> I want to review the spanish translation for the 0.61.08 release.
16:33 < dooglus> genete: no
16:33 < dooglus> genete: i'll check in today's changes so far
16:33 < dooglus> in case there are string changes
16:34 < dooglus> but i don't think so
16:34 < genete> ok
16:34 < dooglus> and i'll not change any more
16:34 < genete> I'm rebuilding studio now  - full review :(
16:35 < dooglus> checkin just finished...
16:36 < genete> ok
16:36 < genete> dooglus: do you feel strong to include sound layer for the 0.61.09 release?
16:37 < dooglus> i don't think that's a good number
16:37 < dooglus> how about 0.62?
16:37 < genete> or 0.7
16:38 < dooglus> or 1
16:38 < genete> :)
16:38 < genete> but don't avoid the question .... 
16:38 < dooglus> haha
16:38 < genete> ha ha ha 
16:38 < dooglus> well spotted :)
16:39 < dooglus> i'm mostly still fixing old bugs rather than adding new features
16:39 < dooglus> but i can look into it
16:41 < genete> I think that we sould make a complete application. Now synfig is great but lacks on some basic features
16:41 < dooglus> I imagine 0.7 came before 0.8, 0.9 and 0.10
16:41 < dooglus> I can't see where else a 0.61 came from
16:41 < dooglus> so .70 would be the number after 0.69 I guess
16:42 < genete> In that case I have enough time to write the book before the 1.0 release. ;)
16:42 < dooglus> but after 0.99 is 0.100 and 0.101
16:43 < genete> lol
16:43 < dooglus> 1.0 generally comes when you think you have something ready for release, not too buggy
16:43 < dooglus> if it didn't crash all the time on windows, maybe we could release 1.0 soon
16:43 < dooglus> but I don't think it could really be called 1.0 yet with the instability we still see
16:44 < genete> in fact the version number is not important
16:44 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1756 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (canvasview.cpp canvasview.h): Removed unused code. The duck toggle actions look after themselves.
16:44 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1757 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (canvasview.cpp canvasoptions.cpp canvasview.h): Fix 1896834: Keep the 'show grid' and 'snap to grid' checkboxes in the caret menu up to date.
16:44 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1758 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/layeractionmanager.cpp: Prevent a warning "Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_action_set_action_group: assertion `action_group == NULL' failed" caused by adding an action to more than one group.
16:44 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1759 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/synfigapp/canvasinterface.cpp: The "warning: Can't get canvas from value desc...?" message was being shown too often. Fixed it.
16:44 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1760 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/synfigapp/actions/valuedescset.cpp: Removed a few debugging printf()s.
16:45 < genete> oh dear! did I get that commit or not?
16:45 < dooglus> I guess not:
16:45 < dooglus> 16:34 < genete> I'm rebuilding studio now  - full review :(
16:45 < dooglus> 16:35 < dooglus> checkin just finished...
16:46 < genete> aaaaaarrrrrghhh!
16:46 < genete> I thought you were checking for translatable strings!
16:47 < genete> not for new commits! 
16:47 < genete> :(
16:47 < dooglus> check-in
16:47 < dooglus> not checking :)
16:47 < genete> lol
16:47 < genete> (the meaning of a single letter)
16:49 < genete> I'm glad you liked the SACL icon :)
16:49 < dooglus> yeah
16:49 < dooglus> it's very clear
16:50 < dooglus> i got it to stay still too :)
16:50 < genete> it is the result of some trials
16:50 < genete> yes I've readed the commit
16:50 < genete> "readed" is correct?
16:50 < dooglus> read
16:50 < genete> I always have problems with "read" verb
16:51 < genete> ok
16:51 < dooglus> read/read/read - said "reed/red/red"
16:51 < genete> :)
16:52 < genete> the modification you did to fix the offset effect on exported canvases is very good
16:52 < genete> ot makes sense now
16:55 < genete> this evening I'll upload a spanish transalation patch.
16:55 < genete> ttyl
16:56 -!- genete [n=Genete@84.122.41.232.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit ["Abandonando"]
16:57 < factor> what is synfig in spanish :)
16:58 < dooglus> http://svn.voria.com/code/synfig-core/trunk/po/es.po
16:58 < dooglus> # Spanish translations for Synfig Core package
16:58 < dooglus> # Traducciones al espa??ol para el paquete Synfig Core.
17:47 -!- MangoFusion [n=jamesu@host81-132-205-163.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #synfig
17:59 < factor> sound layer would be nifty
18:06 < MangoFusion> plenty of free sound api's out there, shouldn't  be too much of a problem
18:18 < factor> which is the most robust
18:35 < MangoFusion> hard to say really
18:35 < MangoFusion> depends what you wanna do
18:36 < MangoFusion> one tends to find that a lot are primarily designed to output to the sound card, so dumping everything to a file (which i guess would be useful for synfig) is very tricky (if not, impossible)
19:04 < factor> the sound language would be another thing
19:10 < factor> Be something like the mod format for sync
19:19 < MangoFusion> in any case, i can't make heads or tails of the existing audio code, so i can only guess as to how its meant to work ;)
19:23 < factor> afk
19:23 -!- ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has quit [Shutting Down]
19:40 -!- ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has joined #synfig
19:40 -!- ServerMode/#synfig [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
19:50 -!- MangoFusion [n=jamesu@host81-132-205-163.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit []
19:54 -!- xerakko [n=Miguel@debian/developer/xerakko] has joined #synfig
19:58 -!- MangoFusion [n=jamesu@host81-132-205-163.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #synfig
20:01 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1761 /synfig-core/trunk/src/synfig/ (valuenode_dynamiclist.cpp valuenode_dynamiclist.h): New member ValueNode_DynamicList::set_member_canvas() for setting the canvas in each member of a dynamic list.
20:01 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1762 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/state_draw.cpp: Use ValueNode_DynamicList::set_member_canvas() to set the canvas for each blinepoint in newly drawn shapes.
20:01 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1763 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/state_bline.cpp: Use ValueNode_DynamicList::set_member_canvas() to set the canvas for each blinepoint in newly drawn shapes.
20:01 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1764 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/synfigapp/canvasinterface.cpp: Use ValueNode_DynamicList::set_member_canvas() to set the canvas for each blinepoint in shapes with blines added via the "New Layer" menu.
20:01 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1765 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/duck.cpp: Be quieter about tangent rotation - only report half turns, not quarter turns.
20:01 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1766 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/state_draw.cpp: Removed debugging printf().
20:01 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1767 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/state_draw.cpp: Make the draw tool quieter.
20:01 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1768 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/state_stroke.cpp: Make the "stroke" state used by the draw tool quieter too.
20:01 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1769 /synfig-core/trunk/src/synfig/valuenode_bline.cpp: Made ValueNode_BLine::create_list_entry quieter.
20:02 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1770 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (state_bline.cpp state_draw.cpp): Remove more console output.
20:02 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1771 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/duck.cpp: Made the rotation counter quieter still - it only starts reporting the rotation count once it reaches 1 (or -1), so it's possible to draw a regular bline without seeing output.
20:02 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1772 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/state_bline.cpp: Commented a couple more state change notifications.
20:46 -!- factor [n=Factor@32.144.75.174] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:57 -!- Factor- [n=Factor@32.145.131.197] has joined #synfig
21:08 -!- genete [n=Genete@84.122.39.172.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #synfig
21:20 < genete> hi
21:21 < dooglus> hi
21:21 < dooglus> don't worry - I didn't change any strings :)
21:22 < genete> :)
21:22 < genete> anyway I'm rebuilding... taking the risk that you commint something in the middle... :)
21:22 < dooglus> I don't think s
21:22 < dooglus> o
21:23 < dooglus> I'm trying to fix the width-ducks bug - when using the 'quarter' thing on a rotated layer
21:23 < genete> the changes 1762, 1763 and 1764 gives some visible modification? 
21:23 < genete> I don't understand them
21:24 < dooglus> dragging bline vertex and tangent ducks used to cause warnings in the console
21:24 < dooglus> those commits fix the problem that the warnings were warning about
21:24 < genete> ah ok
21:24 < dooglus> whether it actually helps anything isn't clear
21:25 < genete> regarding to what you're working on now did you mean fliped instead of rotated?
21:25 < dooglus> with the old version, draw a bline and move some ducks - you'll see warnings.  then save and revert the file and the warnings will stop
21:25 < dooglus> I mean any kind of transformed...
21:25 < genete> ah 
21:26 < genete> so the quarter thing introduces some problems isn't it?
21:26 < dooglus> yes
21:26 < dooglus> but it's off by default
21:27 < genete> I have it on by "my" default ;)
21:28 -!- xerakko [n=Miguel@debian/developer/xerakko] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
21:31  * genete having lunch
21:31 < dooglus> lunch is what you have around noon
21:31 < genete> yes dinner is better ;)
21:34 -!- xerakko [n=Miguel@debian/developer/xerakko] has joined #synfig
21:38 < genete> And then the man he steps right up to the microphone
21:38 < genete> And says at last just as the time bell rings
21:38 < genete> thank you goodnight now its time to go home
21:38 < genete> And he makes it fast with one more thing
21:38 < genete> we are the sultans, we are the sultans of synfig
21:39 -!- omry [n=omry@bzq-84-108-20-56.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:42 < dooglus> he's got a day-time job, he's doing alright
21:43 < genete> He can play honky tonk just like anything
21:44 < genete> I have that sound note by note grabben in my mind ;)
21:44 < dooglus> they were the first band I saw live I think
21:44 < genete> s/sound/song
21:44 < dooglus> 1979
21:44 < genete> did you saw then alive!!!!???
21:44 < genete> whoa!!
21:44 < dooglus> maybe 78.  the same summer as 'grease' was in the cinemas :)
21:45 < genete> you would be 10 or 11 years old then...
21:46 < dooglus> yeah
21:47 < dooglus> went with my dad
21:47 < dooglus> he'd seen them earlier that year at bristol poly.
21:47 < dooglus> before anyone had heard of them :)
21:47 < genete> so did you met The Police also?
21:48 < dooglus> no
21:48 < dooglus> I saw 'the cure' the next year, and was very disappointed
21:49 < genete> so hard/obscure for a 12 years old child...
21:51  * genete enjoying looking for shortcuts for the blend methods...
21:53 < dooglus> I liked the stuff I had heard before - but the tour was all their new stuf that I didn't know
21:53 < dooglus> it doesn't matter i you ind unique shortcuts or not - see the last 2 in englsh - they're the same
21:53 < dooglus> (both 'p' I think?
21:54 < genete> finnally I give up and set two pf them the same
21:54 < genete> s/pf/of
21:55 < dooglus> there are only 21 different letters in the english names of the blend methods, and 22 blend methods...
21:55 < genete> fuzzy translations are funny :)
21:55 < dooglus> so it's not possible to find unique shortcuts
21:56 < genete> I didn't make that count for spanish one.
21:56 < dooglus> what does it do?  does it try to 'interpolate' between known translations?
21:56 < genete> it uses current translated words or similar sounds
21:56 < genete> sometimes it gets the right translation :)
21:57 -!- xerakko_ [n=Miguel@46.pool85-54-226.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #synfig
21:58 < dooglus> if I 'fix' the capitalization (like change "Raise layer" to "Raise Layer", say), does the translation get fixed automatically?
21:58 < genete> I don't now
21:59 < genete> maybe if Layer (capitalised) exists and translated, then yes
21:59 < genete> dooglus: I have this english string: "Set the physical X resolution (dots-per-inch" should I add the right bracket in spanish?
21:59 < dooglus> genete: I mean, you already translated "Raise layer", and I fix the case, editing it to "Raise Layer"
22:00 < dooglus> genete: the file gives the source file and nline number, right?
22:00 < genete> I understood you. What I said was that if the word "Layer" was already translated then it can translate "Reaise Layer automatically"
22:00 -!- xerakko [n=Miguel@debian/developer/xerakko] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
22:00 < genete> yes it does
22:01 < genete> #: src/tool/main.cpp:335
22:01 -!- xerakko_ is now known as xerakko
22:01 < genete> for studio
22:01 < genete> sorry
22:01 < genete> for core
22:03 < dooglus> ok, so no, you should update from svn and re-update your .po file
22:03 < dooglus> it was an error I made
22:03 < genete> ok
22:03 < genete> but it will destroy my edited es.po file :(
22:05 < dooglus> will it?
22:05 < dooglus> I thought it should merge it
22:05 < dooglus> (that's where the 'fuzzy' strings come from, right?)
22:06 < genete> so the steps are: you commit the new string, I svn up it, I make update-po and it will keep my translated strings?
22:10 < dooglus> I've committed it
22:10 < dooglus> save and quit your translation tool first
22:10 < dooglus> and keep a copy of the es.po just in case
22:10 < dooglus> but that's what I think should happen, yes
22:11 < dooglus> I don't commit es.po unless you send it to me
22:11 < dooglus> so there won't be svn conflicts
22:11 < dooglus> and 'make update-po' should respect your changes
22:11 < genete> ok, wise advise that I will do anyway
22:12 < genete> "/Main_Page" is a correct string? wouldn't be "Main_Page"? (#: src/gtkmm/toolbox.cpp:268)
22:13 < genete> ah ok 
22:14 < genete> you have added a comment to the translators:  "this is a wiki page"
22:14 < genete> what if there is not spanish one?
22:15 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1773 /synfig-core/trunk/src/tool/main.cpp: Add a missing closing bracket.
22:16 < genete> that main.cpp change would produce a big re-compile :(
22:16 -!- xerakko [n=Miguel@46.pool85-54-226.dynamic.orange.es] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
22:25  * genete watching "Modern Times"
22:30 < genete> dooglus: it did what you said. 1 fuzzy translated
22:34 -!- pixelgeek [i=86868805@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ee0eb7f217a9c863] has joined #synfig
22:35 < genete> hi pixelgeek :)
22:36 < pixelgeek> hi genete
22:36 < genete> dooglus: I'll send both es.po files but first need to be sure about the translated wikipages...
22:42 < pixelgeek> I never saw Dire Straits, but did see Mark Knopfler - Knebworth 1990...  http://www.knebworthhouse.com/rock/the90s.htm
22:42 < genete> pixelgeek: and all the others?
22:43 < pixelgeek>  Pink Floyd, Paul McCartney, Mark Knopfler, Eric Clapton, Elton John, Genesis, Robert Plant & Jimmy Page, Cliff Richard, Status Quo, Tears For Fears.
22:43 < pixelgeek> Yes - twas a beautiful day
22:43  * genete is envy
22:43 < pixelgeek> envious
22:43 < pixelgeek> or 'is green with envy'
22:44 < genete> very envious ...
22:45 < pixelgeek> The only downside was that the wind was a bit blowy, and they didn't have the big screen up to show the pink floyd visual effects.  Stil had the laser show though....
22:46 < genete> well it is glad to know that there are more connections between people here than synfig... :)
22:48 < pixelgeek> I wouldn't be surprised if the degree of separation between myself and dooglus is way less than 6 degrees.  The UK just isn't that big :)
22:49 < pixelgeek> But unlikely that the connection would ever become apparent.
22:49 < genete> most of the connection depends on the birth date not the location
22:50 < genete> dooglus and I are more or less form the same year, what about you?
22:50 < genete> I'm 1969
22:53 < Factor-> lo pixelgeek cool robot pic like the shadows
22:54 < Factor-> 1969 for what
22:54 < genete> Factor-: birth date
22:56 < Factor-> man on the moon years
22:56 < genete> yeah
22:56 < Factor-> 71 here
22:56 < genete> :)
23:01 < pixelgeek> '68 for me
23:01 < genete> the bracket is very narrow then... :)
23:01 < Factor-> now we just need a 70
23:03  * pixelgeek blushes at Factor's nice comments
23:04 < pixelgeek> I think I exported all the shadows so you could move the sun around and have the shadows follow, but I didn't try it to see if it would work...  Now I think about it , it wouldn't work on the body which has a straight gradient...
23:05 < Factor-> nifty dont know how to do that
23:06 < pixelgeek> All the joints and limbs have bevels, and the angle is exported to a common value
23:08 < genete> It is funny to do. I've tried it before with the a wall texture I did sometime ago and it was cool
23:09 < dooglus> genete: I put the '/' in front of the page names so it is different than the titles
23:10 < dooglus> genete: maybe you want to translate "Tutorials" (the link's name) but not "/Tutorials" (the URL)
23:10 < genete> so why did you mark them as translatable?
23:10 < dooglus> genete: changing main.cpp causes a tiny recompile - just "make" in src/tool
23:10 < genete> indeed
23:13 < dooglus> genete: the URLs are translatable because maybe someone wants to translate "/Tutorials" to "/Tutorials.ru" or something?
23:14 < dooglus> genete: you can translate "/Tutorials" to "/Genete's Sound Layer Idea" if you like...
23:15 < genete> yes that's true but I translated it from "/Tutorials" to "/Tutoriales" so I'm forcing to have a wiki page called "Tutoriales" that currently doesn't exist
23:15 < dooglus> genete: no, you're not
23:15 < dooglus> genete: there are 2 strings: "Tutorials", which you translate into Spanish
23:16 < dooglus> and "/Tutorials", which you change to whichever page you want the menu entry to go to
23:16 < dooglus> ie. leave it alone if you want the regular English tutotials page
23:16 < genete> ouch!
23:16 < dooglus> but if there's a more appropriate page, use that (with a / in front)
23:16 < genete> I translated it!
23:16 < dooglus> you'll get a 'this page doesn't exist, but edit it if you like" wiki page
23:17 < dooglus> how can I make the translators' notes clearer?
23:17 < genete> what about the accented letters? will synfig wiki support them?
23:18 < genete> I've send a patch. Let me modify the "/" translated strings before you commit
23:27 < genete> ok, done. Use the last studio/po/es.po file
23:29 < dooglus> I don't know what the wiki supports
23:30 < dooglus> but I guess you should only use wiki pages that exist anyway
23:30 < dooglus> you can use accented characters in the title strings
23:30 < genete> I've removed the begin with "/" translated strings. You can commit now
23:30 < dooglus> I think the idea is to use <english name>.<country code> for translated wiki pages?
23:30 < genete> I guess so.
23:31 < genete> anyway untill they exists the translation should be empty
23:32 < genete> so they use the english link
23:33 < dooglus> is that what happens?
23:33 < dooglus> what if you translate other strings to <blank>?
23:33 < dooglus> it leaves them in english?
23:33 < genete> I have the english string when it is untranslated
23:33 < genete> untranslated = empty
23:40 < dooglus> good
23:40 < dooglus> that is all very cool :)
23:41 < genete> time to translate synfig to Czech ;)
23:41 < dooglus> "Checked in as SVN r1774."
23:41 < dooglus> lol, right :)
23:41 < dooglus> how Spanish does Synfig seem now?
23:42 < dooglus> is there anything that is still English?
23:42 < genete> so did you get the corrent studio/po/es.po ?
23:42 < dooglus> yeah
23:42 < genete> let me update and check if any.
23:42 < dooglus> I tested it with: LC_ALL=es_ES.UTF-8 sfs
23:43 < dooglus> I think the best thing to do with the ducks is to let the width duck rotate
23:43 < dooglus> and give up on constraining it to the top right corner
23:44 < dooglus> but instead constrain it to the 90 degree range, wherever it happens to have been transformed to
23:44 < dooglus> your 'alpha darken' string is very long
23:47 < dooglus> genete: I see some difference in spacing
23:47 < dooglus> for example:
23:47 < dooglus> #: src/tool/main.cpp:216
23:47 < dooglus> msgid " of "
23:47 < dooglus> msgstr "de"
23:47 < dooglus> is that intentional?
23:47 < genete> nop
23:47 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1774 / (synfig-studio/trunk/po/es.po synfig-core/trunk/po/es.po): Checked in 1897315: Updated Spanish translations for core and studio from genete.
23:47 < dooglus> 			cerr<<taskname<<": "<<_("Line")<<" "<<scanline<<_(" of ")<<h<<" -- ";
23:48 < dooglus> it says "line 2 of 100" while rendering
23:48 < dooglus> you'll see "Linea 2de100" run together
23:48 < genete> I tried to fix them because the first traduction was wrong in that sense
23:48 < genete> I'll make a review again :)
23:49 < dooglus> I can tell you where the differences are
23:49 < genete> if it is easy for you... 
23:49 < genete> in kbabel the spaces are shown as dots but i did not realize it at firts trsnalation
23:51 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/spaces.txt
23:52 < genete> s that one for studio ro for core?
23:53 < genete> core
23:53 < genete> ok
23:53 < dooglus> core
23:54 < dooglus> studio is http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/spaces2.txt
23:54 < genete> I'll review them
23:54 < dooglus> I only had a quick check through - maybe some of these don't matter, but those are the differences in terms of ending with spaces
--- Log closed Wed Feb 20 00:00:26 2008