--- Log opened Sun Feb 17 00:00:29 2008
00:06  * pixelgeek builds 1718
00:07  * dooglus commits 1719 :)
00:07  * dooglus commits 1720 :)
00:07 < pixelgeek> worth restarting for? 
00:08 < dooglus> did you ever try converting a vertex to 'reverse tangent' and see the dotted bezier curve go funny?
00:08 < pixelgeek> duckmatic changes only huh?
00:08 < dooglus> that's all the extra commit fixes
00:08 < pixelgeek> I hadn't, but I'll rest assured knowing that the new build I'm kicking off has it covered ;)
00:09  * pixelgeek builds 1720
00:09 < dooglus> I doubt I'll commit anything else very soon
00:10 < dooglus> I want to see if I can get the waypoints in the child panel to refresh in real time, like the ones in the timetrack panel do
00:10 < dooglus> they're properly interactive now it seems - but not always up-to-date with reality until you point at them
00:12 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1719 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/duckmatic.cpp: Tidied up and reformatted a bit. No real changes.
00:12 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1720 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/duckmatic.cpp: Fixed the display of the tangents and the dotted bezier curve when bline vertices are converted to 'reverse tangent'.
00:19 < pixelgeek> I'm trying to figure out how I can help debug some of these random crashes. 
00:20 < pixelgeek> My February challenge entry was getting very flaky towards the end.
00:20 < pixelgeek> Simply moving a duck would crash it, twice in a row, then it worked fine.
00:30 < dooglus> I wish I knew
00:39 < dooglus> I wonder if this is of any use:
00:39 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/timetrack-in-param-dialog.png
00:39 < dooglus> there's code in place, but commented out, to show a timetrack column in the params dialog
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01:39 < pixelgeek> Ah - so you don't have to worry about trying to line it up in adjacent panels.  I like it. 
01:39 < pixelgeek> Wonder why it was commented out?  Buggy?
01:42 < dooglus> pixelgeek: I don't know.  maybe having a separate panel was 'cooler'?
01:43 < dooglus> I'll re-enable it and we can see how buggy it is...
01:46 < MangoFusion> probably the cool factor
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01:58 < dooglus> I'll leave it conditionally compiled it - so it can easily be removed again
02:16 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1721 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (layertree.cpp layertree.h): 
02:16 < CIA-27> synfig: Uncommented the code that puts a timetrack column in the params dialog. To get
02:16 < CIA-27> synfig: rid of it again either comment out the "#define TIMETRACK_IN_PARAMS_PANEL" in
02:16 < CIA-27> synfig: gtkmm/layertree.h or "export SYNFIG_DEBUG_DESTRUCTORS=1" at runtime.
02:23 < dooglus> debug destructors?
02:24 < dooglus> that commit message should have read:
02:24 < dooglus> Uncommented the code that puts a timetrack column in the params dialog.  To get rid of it again either comment out the "#define TIMETRACK_IN_PARAMS_PANEL" in gtkmm/layertree.h or "export SYNFIG_DISABLE_PARAMS_PANEL_TIMETRACK=1" at runtime.
02:31 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1722 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/layertree.h: Oops. The last commit contained a typo, breaking the build. This fixes it.
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03:01 < Yoyobuae> dooglus: if you're still awake: http://members.lycos.co.uk/yoyobuae/quad_bezier.sif
03:02 < Yoyobuae> quadratic beziers are perfectly spaced by the method i explained
03:03 < Yoyobuae> so i suspect using second derivatives will make it perfect for cubic beziers, hopefully =)
03:04 < Yoyobuae> note the use of deCastlejau algorithm to make a quad bezier =D
03:08 < pabs3> pixelgeek: fridemar signed up for the wiki recently
04:05 < pixelgeek> http://synfig.org/Bline_Speed - and this is why any cars I animate will be on straight roads.
04:44 < Yoyobuae> pixelgeek: don't worry, if I can make the compensation technique work, then code may be added to synfig that allows full control over speed
04:46 < pixelgeek> :)  I wasn't worried.  My work all seems to be hand animated with keyframes and waypoints anyway.
04:47 < pixelgeek> Hey - you're compiling under Windows, aren't you?
04:47 < pixelgeek> Do you have a good setup for debugging?
04:47 < Yoyobuae> uhmm, no XD
04:48 < Yoyobuae> oh right
04:48 < Yoyobuae> i modified the build scripts a bit
04:48 < pixelgeek> no for the first question or the second?  
04:49 < Yoyobuae> yes to both
04:50 < pixelgeek> Is there anything I can do to be able to give dooglus more of a clue where to look when I get these random crashes?
04:50 < Yoyobuae> i split the build scripts into several like: cleanup_core.sh, sources_core.sh, configure_core.sh and make_core.sh
04:50 < pixelgeek> I ought to be able to run synfig under gdb, right?
04:50 < Yoyobuae> i usually just build and test XD
04:50 < pixelgeek> me too
04:51 < Yoyobuae> do you run the make command manually, to avoid rebuilding everything?
04:51 < pixelgeek> I have svn up, build etl, build core, build studio, build all
04:51 < pixelgeek> the last one doing everything
04:51 < Yoyobuae> oh, how long it takes to rebuild then?
04:52 < pixelgeek> No.  It blindly rebuilds everything.
04:52 < pixelgeek> About an hour.  I usually kick it off in the background while I'm websurfing or catching up on the IRC logs
04:53 < pixelgeek> (time for a core 2 duo, me thinks)
04:53 < Yoyobuae> well i took the same scripts from the wiki (Atrus's scripts, right?) and splitted them
04:53 < pixelgeek> nod
04:53 < Yoyobuae> i can then make several times without rebuilding everything
04:54 < pixelgeek> nice
04:54 < Yoyobuae> do you want them?
04:54 < pixelgeek>  - just removing the cleanup?  Or did you have to put extra checks in as well?
04:54 < Yoyobuae> just sliced then scripts =)
04:54 < pixelgeek> Yes please - maybe you could add them to the wiki?
04:54 < Yoyobuae> the same commands are run
04:54 < pixelgeek> as an alternate recipe?
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04:59 < Yoyobuae> http://members.lycos.co.uk/yoyobuae/synfig_win_buildscripts.zip
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05:00 < Yoyobuae> there's only one change: the original scripts install synfig-core in MSYS enviroment by cleaning synfig-core's win32build directory
05:01 < Yoyobuae> my version copies the whole synfig-core build directory into synfig-devel, then it "make clean" and "make install"
05:02 < Yoyobuae> this is so synfig-core build dir remains intact, so rebuilding is faster
05:03 < Yoyobuae> to reproduce Atrus's scripts you would do: cleanup_core.sh -> sources_core.sh -> patches_core.sh -> configure_core.sh -> make_core_v2.sh
05:03 < pixelgeek> neat.  How do you decide when to make clean or install
05:04 < Yoyobuae> you should never do so, unless something goes really wrong
05:04 < Yoyobuae> or you really want to build a really clean synfig =)
05:05 < pixelgeek> I don't know - sometimes when dooglus  gets on a roll, it seems like everytime I update all the files are touched...
05:05 < pixelgeek> ;)
05:05 < factor> heh
05:05 < Yoyobuae> after making synfig-core, it might be necesary to run make_devel.sh
05:05 < pixelgeek> OK - I'll have a play with them tomorrow
05:05 < pixelgeek> It's either that or do my taxes. 
05:06 < Yoyobuae> the second choice doesn't sound very enticing XD
05:07 < pixelgeek> No, it doesn't, does it.  But it does reduce the stress level in the house once it's done.
05:08 < pixelgeek> OK - I'm going to be away from keyboard for a bit, to see if I can repair my projector.
05:08 < pixelgeek> Thanks for the scripts Yoyobuae!
05:08 < Yoyobuae> pixelgeek: np =D
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05:26 < pabs3> pixelgeek / Yoyobuae / dooglus: what do you think of http://bonedaddy.net/pabs3/files/tmp/help.png ?
05:26 < pabs3> hmmm, perhaps it should mention the wikiness of it all
05:27 < factor> can you hyper link the url
05:28 < Yoyobuae> pabs3: i think anything would be better than "Sorry, this feature has not been implemented" XD
05:28 < factor> heh
05:28 < pabs3> factor: that would require us to depend on gnome stuff, unless there is another portable way to do it
05:28 < pabs3> Yoyobuae: :)
05:29 < factor> ahh
05:29 < pabs3> is the string ok? any suggestion about noting that it is user-editible?
05:32 < factor> you can use gtkmozembed to have it launch a local web brwoser
05:32 < factor> local to synfig to the site.
05:33 < factor> then you just have to update the help once only
05:34 < factor> be cool if gtkmozembed had cache capabilities
05:34 < factor> so if you saw it once it would be in cache if you where off line
05:34 < factor> but that would be way more work then a simple widget and text.
05:34 < factor> but the gtkmozembed may be pretty simploe
05:36 < factor> which would be cool to have a web site with libraries of basic object and clip art if you will
05:36 < factor> then you can have links to libraries in synfig
05:37 < factor> it just opens up a simlpe web widget and you selected an object and it load it into your scene
05:42 < factor> does anyone have dooglus deb repo
05:42 < factor> I am getting errors 
05:43 < factor> ahh got it
05:43 < factor> had it unstable and not sid
05:48 -!- LinuxO [n=argentin@182-3-16-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #synfig
05:52 < pabs3> hi LinuxO 
06:05 < LinuxO> hi
06:20 < pixelgeek> pabs3: You've got Animation in the middle of Synfig & Studio....  Any reason why?  I've always just thought of it as Synfig Studio
06:26 < LinuxO> hey, synfig studio is hard?
06:27 < LinuxO> or is easy to use?
06:28 < pabs3> fairly easy
06:29 < LinuxO> fairly what mean? more or less?
06:29 < pabs3> there are advanced features that are hard though
06:29 < pabs3> check out the docs http://www.synfig.org/Documentation
06:29 < LinuxO> ok but I mean I want to draw a character and animate it, how hard is that?
06:29 < LinuxO> The docs say the things but I want some personal opinion
06:31 < pabs3> I don't have any experience with animating stuff
06:31 < pabs3> pixelgeek: any opinion on that?
06:32 < LinuxO> what do you do with synfig studio? static images only?
06:40 < pabs3> so far
06:41 < LinuxO> I want to know because I want to make 2D animations
06:43 < pabs3> best way to find out is to try one of the tutorials
06:44 < LinuxO> yes, I guess
06:47 < LinuxO> this appear to need some work over it
06:47 < LinuxO> for be more intuitive
06:47 < LinuxO> I read this is oriented to animations
06:48 < LinuxO> But I see it some hard to do
07:01 < CIA-27> synfig: pabs * r1723 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (app.h toolbox.cpp app.cpp): For the help menu item, show an information dialog with a link to the documentation page on the website.
07:03 < pixelgeek> Basic animation is straight forward
07:04 < pixelgeek> getting it to look good is a lot harder.
07:05 < LinuxO> Yes, I see
07:05 < pixelgeek> Your first attempt is probably going to look like many others on Youtube.  It takes a lot of time and effort to make it look like a Disney movie
07:05 < LinuxO> That is what I mean, get it to look good. But instead I make art with Inkscape or retouch with Gimp. And in that programs for me is not hard.
07:06 < pixelgeek> What are you planning on animating?
07:06 < LinuxO> Like Disney not but some near
07:07 < LinuxO> I have a very very old planned story but never I have time to do it.
07:07 < LinuxO> In that age I don't knew synfig studio.
07:07 < LinuxO> didn't*
07:07 < pixelgeek> A lot of the work is in the preparation - if you know what you want to show and how you want it to move, it makes it a lot easier to take that into consideration when you set the scene up.
07:08 < pixelgeek> You know which layers you want to be in front, which details you can hide
07:08 < LinuxO> Yes but I don't have experience using the interface of Synfig, I can make some nice looking art with Inkscape but not with synfig :P
07:08 < pixelgeek> Watch other shows, and you see how many 'cheats' they do
07:08 < LinuxO> My solution maybe export and import
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07:08 < pixelgeek> Like showing walking characters from the waist upwards
07:09 < LinuxO> Yes
07:09 < pixelgeek> or people talking off screen or with their lips behind objects
07:09 < LinuxO> But I want to make a character reusable to simplify the work. If not I will draw it with pen in a paper and scan it.
07:09 < pabs3> you can only import bitmaps at the moment, or there is an svg -> sif converter: synfig.org/Converters
07:10 < pixelgeek> If you can make nice art with inkscape, you should have little trouble in making nice art with Synfig.
07:10 < LinuxO> I will try, but if I want some static image in svg?? Can I import/export that? Because I can do some other things with that.
07:11 < pixelgeek> see pabs3's comment
07:11 < LinuxO> ok
07:11 < LinuxO> Ah nice, gimp too?
07:11 < LinuxO> :P
07:12 < pixelgeek> Have a play with it.  If you get stuck give a shout here - there's usually someone around - eventually
07:13 < LinuxO> My stuck was about ocassionally synfigstudio closes because some errors. But I will test a newer version.
07:14 < LinuxO> Just drawing something and losed all :P So that make me lost time :P
07:14 < LinuxO> anyway if I saved or not, the fail affected the saved file. But I will test the newest version as I said. That was an older version.
07:17 < pabs3> it should autosave periodically and recover on restart
07:18 < LinuxO> I hope that
07:39 < pixelgeek> Which OS are you running
07:40 < pixelgeek> and which version of SYnfig are you trying?
07:40  * pixelgeek says "booyah!" - I got my projector working again!!!!
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07:43 < LinuxO> Linux
07:43 < LinuxO> Synfigstudio version 0.61.05
07:44 < pabs3> which Linux distro?
07:44 < LinuxO> LFS :/
07:44 < pabs3> wow, never met anyone who did that
07:45 < pixelgeek> Synfig is DEFINITELY more stable in 0.61.07 or latest SVN.
07:48 < pixelgeek> Bedtime for me - see you later
07:50 < pabs3> indeed
07:59 < pabs3> nite
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09:48  * factor wakes back up
09:53 < factor> the documentation has how to do basic walk cycle for the guy who asked earlier
09:54 < factor> but it needs how to walk plus make a back ground move 
09:54 < factor> either or
09:54 < factor> character move or background move
10:01 < LinuxO> bye
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10:08 < factor> ahh he was still here 
10:25 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1724 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (7 files): Remove the unused 'side' parameter from a bunch more signals and methods.
10:25 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1725 /synfig-core/trunk/src/synfig/waypoint.h: Seems we need to initialise 'before' and 'after' to keep the compiler happy now, too.
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11:00 < dooglus> pabs3: is there any reason not to run a web browser in the same way that the gimp does?
11:01 < dooglus> pabs3: then the 'help' menu entry could just bring up the wiki page, rather than a dialog giving the url
11:09 < factor> will keep everything in sync so you only have to edit it once.
11:09 < factor> and will be updated for the user as is.
11:10 < factor> afk out of caffinated beverage.
11:11 < pabs3> dooglus: how does gimp do it?
11:12 < dooglus> pabs3: it uses g_spawn_async(NULL, argv, NULL, G_SPAWN_SEARCH_PATH, NULL, NULL, NULL, &gerror);
11:12 < pabs3> whats argv?
11:12 < dooglus> pabs3: I'm thinking we could try to spawn a browser, and if that fails, then show your dialog with the URL
11:13 < dooglus> argv is a char*[] = {browser, url, NULL};
11:13 < dooglus> do you have a windows build environment?
11:13 < dooglus> on windows, it uses:
11:13 < dooglus> return ShellExecute(GetDesktopWindow(), "open", url.c_str(), NULL, NULL, SW_SHOW);
11:14 < pabs3> hard part is figuring out what browser to use
11:14 < dooglus> it can be defaulted to "firefox" and added as an option in the gui
11:15 < dooglus> if the default browser won't run, we can pop up a dialog saying where to set it
11:16 < dooglus> maybe have a ./configure flag to specify the default browser, so debian can set it to sensible-browser, or whatever
11:16 < pabs3> I guess that is better than just the dialog
11:17 < dooglus> patch: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/browser.txt
11:17 < dooglus> I'd like to know if it builds on Windows before checking it in
11:19 < pabs3> shouldn't it use glibmm rather than C glib?
11:20 < dooglus> I don't see any reference to *spawn* in glibmm
11:21 < dooglus> aah, I was looking in gtkmm
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11:25  * factor back with required beverage.
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11:36 < dooglus> hmmm:
11:36 < dooglus> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtkmm-list/2006-November/msg00027.html
11:36 < dooglus> Looking at the glibmm source, it looks like there may be a bug in the wrapper.
11:36 < dooglus> In the C version g_spawn_async, you're supposed to pass a NULL pointer for the envp parameter if you want to inherit the environment of the parent (e.g. the DISPLAY variable, etc).
11:36 < dooglus> But when you pass an empty vector to the glibmm version, it doesn't appear to translate that to NULL, which is probably what you want.
11:55 < factor> I just went to the help feature
11:55 < factor> heh
11:55 < factor> feature not inclused yet
11:55 < factor> included even
12:03 < Zelgadis> dooglus: Thanks for fixing bug with converting first Vertex!
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12:14 < dooglus> factor: which version?
12:14 < dooglus> Zelgadis: that's ok - it was just a typo by the look of it
12:16 < factor> dooglus 0.61.07 jan 28 2008 1:32:45
12:16 < factor> not really a problem just the first time I went to that option
12:17 < factor> but would be cool to have a gtkmozembed widget for that , that would require another dep in the synfig lib though libgecko2.0-cil 
12:18 < factor> but could be used for future use to do many ting to collaborate inside synfig
12:18 < factor> where people could pass sifz back and forth with ease and have them viewable on the web as well
12:18 < dooglus> factor: I think I'd rather allow people to use whatever web browser they want
12:19 < dooglus> rather than demanding that they have gecko installed
12:26 < factor> yeah looks like that would add 5.5M to the deps
12:26 < factor> libxul0
12:27 < factor> that is compressed too
12:28 < dooglus> and I want the pages I visit added to my browser history
12:29 < dooglus> I want to be able to bookmark them with my other bookmarks,
12:29 < dooglus> etc.
12:29 < dooglus> I already have a web browser I use - I don't need synfig to do that too
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12:36 < factor> just thinking it would be cool (not really as part of help) but have an option that would render your animation or still to - image shack / photobucket / google  flickr etc.. a render to  not just render button.
12:37 -!- genete [i=5025ffb7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3a37f5ac11e9413c] has joined #synfig
12:37 < factor> lo genete
12:37 < genete> hi factor :)
12:37 < genete> still on vacations ;)
12:39 < dooglus> hi genete
12:39 < genete> hi dooglus 
12:39 < genete> you still so productive!! good!
12:41 < dooglus> genete: my current job: fixing the file>save-all menu entry :)
12:41 < factor> cool
12:41 < factor> was wondering what that did :D
12:43 < genete> dooglus: good. -ther shouldn't be any "feature not implemented" dialog more!!...
12:44 < dooglus> genete: especially when the icon 'save all' works!
12:44 < dooglus> genete: I need a 'select all child layers' icon from you :)
12:45 < genete> dooglus: let me reach home and you?ll get it! :9
12:45 < genete> :)
12:45 < dooglus> genete: also, do you think 'encapsulate' would look better if the arrow went from top-left to bottom-right, like 'duplicate' does?
12:46 < dooglus> I'm going to check in the web-browser code - if it doesn't work in Windows I'm sure someone will tell us :)
12:46 < genete> I think so. Id id it just in 10 minutes based on your trial. Let me make a new design later.
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12:56 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1726 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (app.h app.cpp): Basic support for opening URLs. Not tested on Windows yet. Uses glib's g_spawn_async() rather than glibmm's spawn_async() because it allows us to pass NULL for the environmrnt and inherit the parent's environment.
12:56 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1727 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (dialog_setup.h app.h dialog_setup.cpp app.cpp): Add an option "Browser Command" to allow the user to specify which web browser to use to view the help.
12:56 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1728 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/toolbox.cpp: Add 'help' icon to the toolbox.
12:56 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1729 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/toolbox.cpp: Fix the "toolbox > file > save all" menu entry.
12:57 < dooglus> factor: this 'render to ...' option - would it know your various account passwords and do the upload for you?
12:58 < factor> right that would be an option and settings.
12:58 < factor> account info for each network space.
12:59 < factor> and if you dont put it in it would prompt
13:00 < factor> and also on top of the render to, have a open from one of the netowrk accounts
13:01 < factor> network even
13:01 < factor> that would help with distributed system works
13:01 < factor> so multiple people could work on separate section of the animation
13:08 < genete> dooglus:see you this evenning... 
13:08 < genete> bye! ;)
13:09 < Zelgadis> bye
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13:09 < factor> see ya
13:09 < factor> http://librdf.org/flickcurl/   <--- Flickcurl: C library for the Flickr API
13:09 < factor> heh funny flickcurl
13:11 < factor> I may try some stand alone prog to see what I can come up with 
13:27 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1730 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/toolbox.cpp: Add an icon to show the Setup dialog.
13:27 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1731 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/toolbox.cpp: Fix capitalization.
13:27 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1732 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/widget_defaults.cpp: Fix capitalization and allow keyboard shortcuts to select default interpolation method.
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13:38 < dooglus> rore: did you get studio working eventually?
13:39 < dooglus> last I heard from you it was crashing, or failing to build?
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13:40 < pabs3> IIRC make clean, rebuild fixed rore's crash
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13:42 < dooglus> oh, good
13:44 < Zelgadis> dooglus: I think the bug you fixed yesterday also fixes another: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=757416&aid=1894998&group_id=144022
13:44 < Zelgadis> Oh!
13:44 < Zelgadis> Wrong link!!!
13:45 < Zelgadis> Sorry, here's right link http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1796688&group_id=144022&atid=757416
13:58 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1733 /synfig-core/trunk/src/synfig/paramdesc.cpp: Add keyboard shortcuts to the blend method menus. Needs more work, because now the Params panel shows underscores where the shortcut letters are...
13:58 -!- nebo [i=55b53a4a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-16bd50bedeb93b23] has joined #synfig
13:58 < nebo> Hi everybody
13:59 < Zelgadis> hi
13:59 < dooglus> Zelgadis: I had a quick look to see if there were others it fixed, because I thought it was familiar, but I didn't see any.
13:59 < dooglus> Zelgadis: I'll take a look at your link
13:59 < dooglus> hi nebo :)
13:59 < Zelgadis> dooglus: thanks
13:59 < nebo> Hey, is there a way to "unexport" exported layers ?
14:00 < Zelgadis> you mean Inline canvases?
14:00 < nebo> right
14:00 < nebo> canvases
14:01 < Zelgadis> Well, it seems there is no way to unexport them now
14:01 < Zelgadis> nebo, where are you from?
14:01 < nebo> Serbia
14:01 < nebo> currently in Germany
14:01 < Zelgadis> I'm from Russoa
14:01 < Zelgadis> I'm from Russia
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14:02 < nebo> I've seen some your posts, and I thought so :)
14:02 < dooglus> nebo: there's no way to do it, I don't think, except for by editing the .sif file in a text editor...
14:02 < Zelgadis> Really? Ha-ha :D
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14:02 < nebo> heh
14:02 < nebo> How can I edit Sifz file in text editor :)
14:03 < nebo> maybe I should use hex editor :)
14:03 < Zelgadis> it is archive
14:03 < Zelgadis> gzip archive
14:03 < nebo> hmmzz
14:04 < Zelgadis> Rename it to filename.tar.gz and try to open. Which os are you using?
14:04 < nebo> heheh I just renamed it to .zip and unpacked
14:04 < nebo> it works
14:04 < nebo> I'm in windows
14:04 < Zelgadis> Whoa... 
14:05 < nebo> on win
14:05 < Zelgadis> I thought it was gzipped
14:06 < dooglus> nebo: I use GNU Emacs.  It can edit .sifz files (it gunzips them, lets you edit, then rezips, transparently)
14:06 < nebo> nice tool, I have no problem doing it manually though
14:07 < dooglus> it is gzipped.  I guess whatever nebo has associated with the .zip extension can recognise a gzipped file when it sees it, even if it has the wrong extension
14:07 < dooglus> it's better to rename them to .gz I expect, rather than .zip, but whatever works.
14:07 < nebo> I am using total commander, and he does what he does :)
14:07 < dooglus> also, you can save as .sif instead of .sifz - then they're not gzipped at all
14:08 < nebo> yes I was wondering what was the difference between sif and sifz. Now I know
14:08 < nebo> one more question
14:08 < dooglus> sif files are full of spaces - they can get quite big
14:09 < dooglus> but they compress well
14:09 < nebo> can you save and exported canvases in separate sif/sifz file ?
14:09 < Zelgadis> no, but you can connect external sif/sifz file
14:09 < Zelgadis> to Inline canvas
14:10 < nebo> Okay, I just made some mess and I wanted to clean up a bit :)
14:10 < dooglus> the 'canvases' panel needs work doing on it
14:10 < dooglus> 'delete' and 'save as' would both be useful operations on canvases
14:11 < dooglus> for editing by hand, the exported canvases are all at the top of the .sif file - in the <defs>...</defs> section
14:11 < dooglus> you should be able to copy/paste them into separate files if you're careful I guess
14:11 < nebo> my lilttle red riding hood is progressing much slower that I thought it should
14:11 < dooglus> but obviously, that's not a good solution long term
14:12 < nebo> nice info dooglus I might do it by hand
14:12 < nebo> the characters are there, they are just not moving yet :)
14:12 < nebo> http://imgplace.com/image/view/3845ab3087d440c155d8a9ec72ecf2f7
14:13 < Zelgadis> my contest entry is progresssing slow too :)
14:14 < Zelgadis> yeah, I saw them on the forum
14:14 < Zelgadis> I liked the wolf's tail :)
14:14 < dooglus> granny doesn't look well :)
14:15 < Zelgadis> Maybe she eat something wrong? ;)
14:16 < nebo> yeah she's supposed to look sick
14:17 < dooglus> I'm worried about her
14:18 < nebo> don't be. she'll survive :)
14:18 < dooglus> Zelgadis: funny bug you reported.  I hadn't noticed it before, but it's present in 0.61.06 even
14:19 < Zelgadis> O_o
14:21 < factor> heh
14:27 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1734 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/cellrenderer_value.cpp: Don't show the keyboard shortcut underscores in the Params panel's value column.
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--- Log opened Sun Feb 17 16:24:31 2008
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16:31 < dooglus> Zelgadis: I just fixed the 'selected duck' bug
16:31 < Zelgadis> dooglus: wow... Thank  you!
16:31 < Zelgadis>  dooglus: can splash screen contain transperency?
16:32 < dooglus> Zelgadis: there was a related bug that you didn't spot yet - the right-click menu on converted ducks was also acting on the first duck - so if you convert to reference and try to convert back, it wasn't working
16:32 < dooglus> Zelgadis: probably not, the way the code currently is.  but it's easy enough to try it...
16:33 < dooglus> Zelgadis: unless you mean for the feb. contest - in which case that's up to pabs - but from what he's said about not allowing animation in it, I guess he'll probably say to assume it's going to be going on top of a white background
16:34 < Zelgadis> dooglus: Yes. It's about Feb contest. But if it could be implemented => splash can have transparency ;)
16:38 < dooglus> it can have transparency - but if it does, all that happens is you get to see the white of the window under it
16:38 < Zelgadis> Oh :(
16:50 < factor> or whatever you have your theme color set too
16:51 < Zelgadis> but maybe it could be fixed? (gnome while loading can show transperent splash)
16:52 < Zelgadis> One more question: how to change font family for Text?
16:53 < Zelgadis> I can't even change it to Bold
16:58 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1735 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/duckmatic.cpp: Fix 1895378: Converted Bline Vertex not marked with red square.
16:58 < CIA-27> synfig: dooglus * r1736 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/duckmatic.cpp: Fix 1895440: Converted vertex sometimes can't be converted back.
17:01 < dooglus> I don't know about the Text layer.  Apparently it needs a lot of work.
17:12 < Zelgadis> factor: 23hq.com supports animated gifs...
17:12 < Zelgadis> i checked
17:12 < factor> but no api
17:12 < factor> I would have to make one
17:13 < Zelgadis> :(
17:13 < factor> but that is good to knwo
17:13 < factor> know
17:18 < factor> <Zelgadis> looks like it is down right now
17:18 < factor> but found a link about a python script that uploads to 23hq
17:18 < Zelgadis> "down"?
17:19 < Zelgadis> no, server is responding
17:28 < Zelgadis> night all
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17:47 < dooglus> hi genete.  back home now?
17:47 < genete> hi dooglus, yeah!
17:47 < genete> logs are caught up now
17:47 < genete> can I rebuild or plan to commit more today?
17:48 < dooglus> genete: if you're at 1737, that will be current for a while
17:48 < dooglus> genete: I only committed it 30 seconds ago
17:49 < genete> I guess it would be a full rebuild... I think better I make the requested buttons.
17:50 < genete> if I work with studio can I have problems if build core?
17:51 < dooglus> possibly
17:52 < dooglus> well, building it shouldn't be a problem, but installing it might
17:52 < dooglus> I suggest turning the auto-backup interval right down and forgetting about it
17:53 < genete> ok, I can live with my current version for a while. Preffer to draw the buttons.
17:59 < genete> dooglus: when you asked to make the encapsulate botton icon arrow to be from left to right, did you mean also to be right forst and down after or down first and right after? 
17:59 < dooglus> I mean a left-right mirror image of what we have
18:00 < dooglus> genete: I think it just would look more natural to be indicating left to right 'movement'
18:00 < dooglus> I don't know which shape of arrow would look better
18:01 < genete> http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/Genete/Pantallazo-encapsulate_icon-genetes.png
18:01 < genete> Is that ok?
18:01 < dooglus> yeah
18:02 < dooglus> I don't know if there's any need to leave space around the outside
18:02 < genete> I'm not sure either
18:02 < dooglus> I think gtk adds its own padding
18:02 < dooglus> so use the space fully
18:04 < genete> current duplicate icon have space on the edges
18:05 < dooglus> yes
18:05 < genete> What I wouldn't do is to enlarge the layer icons
18:05 < genete> they should be size consistent
18:09 < dooglus> yes, ok
18:12 < genete> OK, I've reopened the patch.
18:13 < genete> Now let's design the Select All Children Layers icon :)
18:13 < dooglus> did you see my design?
18:13 < dooglus> S A
18:13 < dooglus> C L
18:13 < dooglus> heh
18:14 < genete> lol
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18:21 < Yoyobuae> "07:09 < LinuxO> But I want to make a character reusable to simplify the work." <-- This is what synfig needs, reusable animation.
18:22 < Yoyobuae> it's the only way that animation will be possible, without require huge amounts of work
18:23 < genete> Yoyobuae: have you seen this? http://synfig.org/Reuse_Animations
18:23 < genete> Maybe there is other way to reuse animations but I think that's the best way for the moment
18:24 < Yoyobuae> yeah i have seen it =)
18:25 < Yoyobuae> but that classifies a bit more like "reusing waypoints" XD
18:26 < Yoyobuae> to make a character reusable, so you can make two completely different animations without huge amounts of redesign
18:26 < Yoyobuae> that's a big challenge
18:27 < genete> Import the original file, export the canvas and make a new animation. That's all.
18:27 < genete> importting files is the solution I think
18:27 < genete> so you don't need to redesign the character.
18:27 < Yoyobuae> yeah, but what if the the user wants to animate from a different point of view XD
18:28 < genete> that's the main problems for all the 2D animation software. The want work like 3D it is a pain
18:28 < Yoyobuae> yeah i know, 3D is really something synfig should really try to be doing
18:29 < Yoyobuae> but lets take nebo's characters: http://imgplace.com/image/view/3845ab3087d440c155d8a9ec72ecf2f7
18:29 < Yoyobuae> having a side view, a front view, and transitions between would be great
18:30 < Yoyobuae> and for simple characters its shouldn't be too hard
18:30 < genete> Yes but not automatic. They would look so mechanic
18:31 < genete> I prefer desing the character to be ready for what you want from it. 
18:31 < genete> don't ask the design to be capable to make all kind of views
18:32 < genete> it is quite difficult if not impossible and finally you spend more time designing than animating.
18:32 < Yoyobuae> and how much time is spend animating?
18:32 < genete> look my woman headturn test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3ctTJQ9koc
18:32 < Yoyobuae> do you see any finished animation works around?
18:33 < Yoyobuae> something like that is what i mean =)
18:33 < genete> but that's all based on think the design before draw it!!
18:33 < genete> download the file and watch the layers
18:34 < genete> you'll see that they are ready for the head turn
18:34 < genete> if you don't think on them first you're are not able to do it
18:34 < Yoyobuae> and that's the brick wall every single synfig animator is hitting, hard
18:35 < genete> but don't ask my design to be ready for look up and down meanwhile... 
18:35 < genete> the problem that you're asking to solve is a common task for any 2D animation program
18:36 < genete> if you want the model to be ready for any point of view then go to a 3D program. 
18:36 < Yoyobuae> i think we can forget top and bottom point of view, for a long while
18:37 < Yoyobuae> but views only from the sides, maybe they are posible
18:37 < genete> for a head yes, but what happen with hands?
18:37 < genete> they are quite difficult!!!!
18:38 < Yoyobuae> we need ways to make them easier!! =D
18:39 < genete> yeah! remove one finger is one of the first steps to do that!!!! ;)
18:39 < Yoyobuae> ok, remove all fingers
18:39 < Yoyobuae> is a hand easy now?
18:39 < Yoyobuae> then draw ONE finger
18:40 < Yoyobuae> attach that to the fingerless hand
18:40 < Yoyobuae> we get a hand with one finger
18:40 < Yoyobuae> repeat to add other finger
18:41 < Yoyobuae> that is the kind of techniques we need to create.  synfig has the potential. A LOT of untapped potential actually XD
18:42 < MangoFusion> indeed
18:43 < genete> Yoyobuae: everything depends on the complexity level you want for your model.
18:43 < genete> the thing is to find the average complexity.
18:45 < Yoyobuae> yeah but there's a minimum complexity, that is if you want to animate easily
18:47 < Yoyobuae> only drawing a bunch of shapes and nothing else will make animation hard
18:47 < Yoyobuae> adding a few rotate layers here and there will make it easier
18:48 < genete> you're asking for bones then...
18:48 < Yoyobuae> it would be a good idea =)
18:49 < Yoyobuae> and they can be done with converts, but that would be too complex for the average user
18:49 < genete> I still thinking on bones for synfig but don't want to produce a headache to dooglus for the moment...
18:49 < genete> I prefer him to work on other new stuff like add soundtracks
18:50 < genete> using my sound layer idea, of course ;)
18:50 < Yoyobuae> of course =)
18:50 < genete> =)
18:53 < genete> dooglus: the order "Select all children layers" should select also the parent paste canvas layer? I really don't know...
18:54 < dooglus> genete: also, should it select the child layers if the child itself has child layers?
18:54 < dooglus> or should it only select the 'leaf' layers?
18:54 < dooglus> genete: what do you use it for?  you said it was one of the most used menu entries...
18:56 < genete> I use it to select all the ducks and move, smooth move, mirror rotate and things like that
18:57 < dooglus> ok
18:57 < genete> I really don't know what's the best 
18:57 < genete> select the root parent or not
18:58 < dooglus> how does the 'child lock' work with that?
18:58 < Yoyobuae> genete: http://members.lycos.co.uk/yoyobuae/fake3D_plane.sifz
18:59 < genete> dooglus: if I lock the children then the command desn't do nothing. I mean the root paste canvas still selected. but it was already selected.
18:59 < Yoyobuae> genete: faking 3D using only waypoints.  Note the use of linear and TCB waypoints to make a fake Sine
19:00 < genete> Yoyobuae: I'll have a look as soon as I have time.
19:01 < genete> Yoyobuae: but remember my comments form other day. 3D fake is valid only for sharp objects. Impossible to do smooth things manually.
19:01 < genete> unless you increase the amount of vertices hugely.
19:03 < genete> dooglus: this is my proposal: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/Genete/Pantallazo-select_all_layers_iconsi.png
19:03 < genete> I have to go. Back before go to bed.
19:03 < genete> see u.
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19:06 < genete> dooglus: oops!. The colors come form the ubuntu theme.... how can we use the current OS selected color?
19:07  * genete is away: Estoy ocupado
19:08 < dooglus> ?
19:08 < dooglus> what colors?
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19:13 < Yoyobuae> i think genete means that his icon is mimicking the Layers panel
19:13 < Yoyobuae> and that the color of the background shows whether a layer is selected or not
19:14 < Yoyobuae> but that color changes depending on the user's theme
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20:30 < genete> Yoyobuae: that's what I wanted to say :)
20:30  * genete is back (gone 01:23:55)
20:31 < Yoyobuae> i dont think there's a way for a SIF file to know which color to use
20:31 < genete> but would be good to be able to pass it by the command line...
20:31 < Yoyobuae> unless you do something very clever within the build process
20:32 < Yoyobuae> icons are build only once, but can't the user change color schemes at any point?
20:33 < genete> oh yes :(
20:33 < genete> I should re-design the icon then...
20:34 < Yoyobuae> idea: a rectangle around the child, with dashed liines
20:34 < genete> Yoyobuae: how does your layer panel looks when some layers are selected?
20:39 < Yoyobuae> genete: http://members.lycos.co.uk/yoyobuae/layer_panel.png
20:40 < genete> Yoyobuae: thanks, so at the end it is a gradient
20:40 < genete> nice to see also the other icons
20:41 < genete> the duplicate, encapsulate and select all icons should match as many themes as possible...
20:43 < Yoyobuae> i guess they should
20:52  * genete is updating meanwhile thinks on the S.A.C.L. icon ;)
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20:59 < dooglus> I'm still not understanding the problem
21:00 < dooglus> oh, you're trying to copy the look of the gui in the icon?
21:01 < dooglus> the problem is that the gui looks different to everyone, but the icons are only built once, then shipped in the packages
21:02 < dooglus> my current investigation:  why does 'new layer > outline' make a useless blob rather than a proper bline?
21:06 < genete> dooglus: but Yoyoubae mentioned that the theme can be changed after installing. So imitating the colors theme is not a good idea for impulsive usres.
21:07 < dooglus> genete: it's worse than that
21:07 < dooglus> the icons are usually built by someone other than the user
21:07 < dooglus> the icons come ready built in the .deb package or .exe installer
21:08 < genete> right
21:08 < dooglus> genete: a similar issue is that some icons are from the gtk theme, and some aren't
21:08 < dooglus> so a user with a distinctive gtk theme will see some icons really standing out
21:09 < genete> yes it is a problem
21:09 < dooglus> like his 'open', 'save', etc. icons will be all black and white,
21:09 < dooglus> and the synfig-specific ones won't be
21:09 < dooglus> I think pabs was talking about icon theming for synfig at one point
21:10 < genete> what did he conclude?
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21:14 < dooglus> I think he was saying it needed doing
21:14 < dooglus> quite a while ago though
21:14 < genete> hi pixelgeek 
21:15 < pixelgeek> hi folks
21:16 < genete> pixelgeek: cool feb entry! :)
21:17 < pixelgeek> :)
21:17 < pixelgeek> Worth the wait?
21:17 < genete> sure!
21:17 < genete> even we have time for a new one!
21:19 < dooglus> genete: do you think it's worth getting outlines/regions/plants etc to have proper ducks when they're created from the 'new layer' menu?
21:20 < dooglus> is there some advantage to how they currently are created?
21:21 < genete> when I started to use synfigstudio I was very dissapointed with plant layer. Even after you fix it. Untill I understood that I have to convert the vertices list to a Bline composite it was void to me.
21:26 < pixelgeek> ?
21:26 < pixelgeek> I don't think I've converted plant layers....
21:27  * pixelgeek thinks genete  just wants to convert everything ;)
21:28 < genete> so I think that for newbies it would be good if the just created Bline form a direct Layer-> command
21:28 < pixelgeek> If nothing else we now have splashscreens for the next three years at the current rate of rleases
21:28 < pixelgeek> Oh - I'm with you
21:29 < pixelgeek> yes.  That was confusing to have to link it to a bline
21:30 < pixelgeek> It didn't seem to be editable when you just have that loop of plant layer on its own - I haven't tried that recently to see if dooglus's changes have affected that.
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21:38 < dooglus> pixelgeek: you can draw plants using the bline tool now - and they come out editable
21:39 < dooglus> the tool options offers 'plant' as well as 'gradient', 'outline' and 'region'
21:40 < dooglus> pixelgeek: you don't have to link to another bline - you can just convert the existing one to 'bline' and then it's editable
21:40 < dooglus> i've found a way to make it automatically editable from the get go though, so I'll check that in soon
21:40 < dooglus> (if it works!)
21:41 < pixelgeek> cool
21:41 < pixelgeek> Looks like I need to recompile and check if help works too?
21:46 < dooglus> yeah
21:46 < dooglus> I don't even know if it will compile
21:48 < dooglus> I think I may have just found a bug that would cause a few crashes
21:49 < pixelgeek> new bug or an existing one?
21:49 < dooglus> genete: you'll enjoy translating the new accelerated blend method names :)
21:49 < dooglus> genete: there are 21 blend methods - it's 'fun' finding a different accelerator letter for each of them
21:50  * pixelgeek building 1741 - or trying anyway
21:50 < dooglus> pixelgeek: existing - casting between reference-counted types and non-reference-counted types
21:50 < pixelgeek> Yay for killing bad bugs!
21:50 < dooglus> pixelgeek: did you get Yoyobuae's scripts to work?
21:51 -!- factor [n=factor@ip68-14-160-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #synfig
21:51 < dooglus> not having to wait for an hour for each build would be really helpful to debug any problems with the browser
21:55 < dooglus> killing bad bugs?  I didn't say I'd killed it...  :)
21:58 < pixelgeek> I haven't had a chance to play with them - been playing with kids instead
21:59 < pixelgeek> I wanted to do a good build first then try Yoyobuae's scripts - I don't want to have to debug both at the same time ;)
21:59 < pixelgeek> Not that I have any doubt the help link will be a problem
22:00  * pixelgeek afk biab finally going to try and watch the end of a movie I started 2 weeks ago.
22:01 < dooglus> let me know the error messages from the compiler if/when they happen
22:06  * genete just hang off the phone
22:07 < genete> dooglus: the right to left encapsulate icon looks ugly :(
22:10 < genete> dooglus: where can I find the accelerated blend methods names in studio?
22:10 < genete> aaaaaah
22:11 < genete> what have you done???
22:12 < genete> you want to make me crazy!!! ;)
22:12 < genete> (I hate search for accelerator letters!)
22:16 < genete> dooglus: let me make a new encapsulate icon. It must be more clear when it is size reduced.
22:22 < dooglus> genete: synfig/paramdesc.cpp
22:22 < genete> thanks, I just found them
22:23 < dooglus> genete: I hooked a few wiki pages up to the help menu too - those will maybe need translating (although, there aren't any spanish wiki pages I guess?)
22:23 < genete> I don't want to translate wiki pages for spanish. 
22:24 < genete> there is some started out by cyborg_ar but discontinued
22:24 < dooglus> genete: it should be easy to find accelerator letters - you have extra letters with your accents :)
22:24 < genete> :)
22:24 < genete> I've simplfied the encapsulate icon a bit. 
22:25 < dooglus> genete: I don't mean to translate the pages, but to translate the URLs maybe, to point to existing spanish pages, if any
22:25 < genete> no spanish ones for the moment
22:26 < genete> http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/Genete/Pantallazo-encapsulate_icon-genete2.png
22:26 < genete> I think this one is much better. I've tested it and looks very well
22:27 < genete> dooglus: I think that "duplicate keyframe" needs a new icon, isn't it?
22:29  * rore agrees that the encapsulate_icon_genete2.png is rather clear and easy to understand :)
22:30 < genete> hi rore :)
22:31 < rore> hello hello helloooooo 
22:31 < genete> :)
22:31 < dooglus> I don't think there is a 'duplicate keyframe' icon - only a 'duplicate' icon
22:32 < genete> so the "duplicate layer" icon should be called "duplicate" only. 
22:32 < rore> genete: hey, but that's not a tango! style icon :p (well, I'm not sure that people really care about that)
22:34 < genete> rore: yes... :( there are lot of things out of style on synfig icons...
22:34 < genete> dooglus: why the SACL button dissapear when a non single paste canvas is selected? 
22:35 < genete> it should be greyed instead
22:35 < rore> bah, having easy-to-understand icons is the best I think. I'm not a huge fan of the tango guidelines.
22:36 < factor> tango?
22:37 < dooglus> genete: it's called "duplicate_icon.sif" I think?
22:37 < genete> yes you're right
22:37 < rore> factor: http://tango.freedesktop.org/ 
22:38 < dooglus> http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines
22:40 < genete> what still confusing me is the "CHILD" panel. "Child" of who???
22:40 < dooglus> of the canvas I think
22:41 < genete> but everything inside a canvas is child of it, not only the exported ones.
22:41 < genete> (except the imported ones)
22:42 < dooglus> I think it is supposed to mean those values are closely related to the canvas - they are direct children of it
22:43 < dooglus> most values are more distant relations (the angle of the tangent of the 3rd vertex of the bline that's the shape of the plant layer that's in the encapsulation that's in the canvas...
22:43 < dooglus> that's a distant relation.  a child is directly "a value in the canvas"
22:45 < genete> dooglus: can you download the second version of the encapsulate_icon from my patch? it seems to have a bug or something strange I can't reproduce with new files.
22:46 < dooglus> the 2nd?
22:46 < dooglus> I already checked it in
22:46 < genete> yes
22:46 < genete> the second one
22:46 < dooglus> the mirrored one, not simplified, right?
22:46 < dooglus> 266728?
22:47 < genete> the mirrored one
22:47 < dooglus> ok
22:47 < dooglus> what's the ubg?
22:47 < genete> the simlpified is not patched yet
22:47 < genete> once opened select the "item" layer (the first one)
22:47 < genete> now expand it and select one of the polygons
22:47 < genete> tell me what you see strange...
22:49 < dooglus> I noticed it was strange earlier
22:49 < dooglus> the polygons are linked?
22:49 < genete> nop
22:49 < genete> the ducks are displaced and there are extra dashed lines
22:49 < dooglus> oh, it's one canvas 3 ties
22:49 < dooglus> times
22:50 < genete> I don't understand
22:50 < dooglus> the selected polygon is displayed 3 times
22:50 < dooglus> the three [item] layers are the same canvas 3 times
22:51 < genete> yes but it doesn't justify to draw the ducks that way
22:51 < genete> neither the dashed lines
22:51 < genete> maybe I'm worng
22:52 < genete> and it makes sense
22:55 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/blines.png
22:55 < dooglus> I see the same with blines
22:57 < genete> maybe I'm editing the object with the ducks in a position so far away from the place it will be used. 
22:57 < genete> and it will be very difficult to edit it and see the edition effects at the sam time
22:59 < dooglus> it seems the ducks appear on the copy that is last in the layer list
22:59 < dooglus> whichever copy you select
23:00 < genete> did you understand my complaint?
23:05 < dooglus> I think so
23:05 < dooglus> you can edit it in a separate window though
23:06 < genete> yes that's true
23:09 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
23:10 < Yoyobuae>  http://members.lycos.co.uk/yoyobuae/fingers.sifz
23:11 < Yoyobuae> my attempt at rendering one finger
23:12 < Yoyobuae> its very funny looking because i forgot to introduce a way to scale each finger section
23:14 < dooglus> looks good
23:15 < dooglus> and caused a nasty crash :)
23:15 < Yoyobuae> lol, i also got a few crashes while making it XD
23:16 < genete> Yoyobuae: what should I modify to rotate the phalanxs?
23:16 < Yoyobuae> you know how when you edit an exported paste canvas and add new layers, they don't appear in the root canvas?
23:17 < Yoyobuae> in each paste canvas, the time offset parameter the RHS of the "Add"
23:17 < Yoyobuae> time=1s shows the the nail
23:17 < Yoyobuae> nail side that is
23:17 < Yoyobuae> -1s the opposite
23:19 < Yoyobuae> dooglus: like i was saying, after adding a layer on an exported paste canvas, that layer doesn't show on the root canvas.
23:20 < Yoyobuae> dooglus: if you then try to add a layer to the paste canvas while on the root canvas, studio it crashes
23:20 < Yoyobuae> s/it//
23:20 < genete> Yoyobuae: look at this: http://genetita.googlepages.com/voila.mov
23:20 < genete> that's was done using Anime Studio bones and a 3D trick. 
23:21 < genete> it was similar to your work
23:22 < dooglus> Yoyobuae: yes.  saving and reverting works around the 1st problem.  creating the new layer in the root and cut/paste into the subcanvas works around the 2nd
23:22 < dooglus> but yes, I know about both bugs
23:22 < Yoyobuae> ok, i used the save/revert workaround
23:23 < Yoyobuae> just wanted to let you know =)
23:24 < Yoyobuae> genete: that's a very nice anim =D
23:24 < genete> :)
23:25 < Yoyobuae> but fingers look a bit, cylindrical =)
23:25 < genete> yes
23:26 < genete> I want you to make the nail in a 3/4 view automatically :)
23:26 < Yoyobuae> XD
23:26 < Yoyobuae> maybe if i had 2D waypoints, i could make it for ANY view XD
23:27 < Yoyobuae> but it would be nice to make the simpler palm view first
23:28 < genete> The piece of skin that connects the big finger to the palm is a pain to reproduce... XD
23:28 < genete> ( I don't know its name in spanish either)
23:29 < Yoyobuae> me neither =)
23:32 < genete> Yoyobuae: good setup anyway for a front view of the hand
23:32 < genete> (of the finger ;))
23:32 < genete> it crashed also to me :)
23:32 < Yoyobuae> well, a hand is 4 duplicates away, plus making the thumb XD
23:33 < Yoyobuae> but i'll have to overhaul each finger section, to allow for scalling
23:33 < Yoyobuae> or else i'll end up with a really weird hand
23:33 < Yoyobuae> all phalanxs and fingers identical XD
23:34 < Yoyobuae> i think doing things like a hand will take a lot of thinking outside the box
23:35 < Yoyobuae> i had problems when i tried making the hand first, then working towards the fingertips
23:36 < Yoyobuae> but making the a single fingertip was far easier, then i could work my way back into the hand
23:37 < genete> Yoyobuae: if I rotate the [finger3] phalanx (RHS = 1s) the other phalanxs don't rotate.
23:37 < Yoyobuae> making the palm of the hand will remain for another day though XD
23:37 < Yoyobuae> yeah you snap the poor finger =D
23:38 < genete> it would be good if the rotation of the phalanx were accumulative for its children
23:38 < genete> it would make animation easier
23:38 < Yoyobuae> the position already is accumulative, same could be done for rotation
23:39 < Yoyobuae> simply matter of adding the time offset of the parent
23:39 < genete> yup
23:39 < Yoyobuae> but the problem is that time offset is limited to -1s to 1s range
23:40 < Yoyobuae> maybe it might be a good idea to allo a full rotation somehow
23:40 < genete> you should think on local rotations not global
23:40 < genete> the rotation should be relative to the parent phalanx
23:40 < Yoyobuae> true
23:41 < genete> think what would you do when add rotation to the palm...
23:41 < genete> all the fingers would follow then
23:42 < genete> what's the easier way to create a dashed looped line?
23:43 < dooglus> genete: probably the easiest way is to say "dooglus: are you ready for another feature request?"
23:43 < genete> no, no
23:44 -!- MangoFusion [n=jamesu@host81-132-205-163.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Not here"]
23:44 < genete> I think that a perpendicular repeat gradient straight onto an outline will work
23:44 < dooglus> maybe some perpendicular striped curve gradient onto an outline?
23:44 < dooglus> ha
23:44 < genete> it seems that it has room for a wiki entry...
23:45 < genete> bingo!
23:48 < Yoyobuae> a worst method: add 2 linked vertexes where a dash ends/starts, and adjust widths XD
23:49 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/dotted.png
23:49 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/dotted.sifz
23:49 -!- xerakko [n=Miguel@debian/developer/xerakko] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:49 < genete> yeah
23:50 < genete> Synfig is great! 
23:50 < dooglus> :)
23:50 < dooglus> I'm amazed how many bugs we still find
23:51 < genete> :)
23:51 < genete> find them is always good new though
23:53 < dooglus> Yoyobuae: maybe once you've got your lists working better the widths trick would be more workable
23:54 < dooglus> Yoyobuae: I don't fancy manually editing 2 widths per dash
23:56 < Yoyobuae> dooglus: yeah, but i'm still not confident enough to be adding new converts from scratch XD
23:57 < Yoyobuae> dooglus: although i have been distracted with other things XD
--- Log closed Mon Feb 18 00:00:19 2008