--- Log opened Tue Dec 25 00:00:24 2007
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01:18 < pxegeek> Merry Christmas everybody!
01:18  * pxegeek still living on UTC time....
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01:30 -!- San-Qdo is now known as ZanQdo
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03:15 < pxegeek> http://xkcd.com/361/
03:45 < pxegeek> Hmmmm - I think eyes.sif is suffering from the fixes made for tangent rotating.  :(
03:55 < pxegeek> One of the tangents goes from 177 to -168, the long way around.  
03:56 < pxegeek> dooglus - didn't you have backwards compatibility mode in for that fix?  
04:23 < dooglus> pxegeek: I thought the fix would only affect duck dragging
04:23 < dooglus> pxegeek: guess I was wrong.  which revision causes the bug?
04:24 < pxegeek> Somewhere between 1128 & 1170 - haven't narrowed it down yet - they're the closest versions I have compiled for windows.
04:25 < dooglus> ok.  I'm trying to narrow it down
04:25 < pxegeek> Merry Christmas, BTW
04:25 < dooglus> to you too
04:29 < pxegeek> Here's a better pic of it - 
04:29 < pxegeek> http://home.comcast.net/~pxegeek/synfig/eyes(1).png
04:31 < dooglus> genete wants to be able to animate multiple rotations - -180 to 181 is a 361 degree rotation as far as he's concerned
04:31 < dooglus> previously, all angles were treated modulo 360
04:31 < dooglus> so -180 and 181 are right next to each other, not 361 degrees apart
04:32 < pxegeek> Yes - I actually agree with him, but I thought you did in such a way to preserve the old functionality
04:32 < dooglus> while layers are versioned, types aren't
04:32 < pxegeek> Ah.
04:32 < pxegeek> Oh.
04:32 < dooglus> otherwise we could say "this is an old-style mod-360 angle"
04:32 < pxegeek> Ah well
04:33 < pxegeek> Maybe check the canvas version instead?
04:33 < dooglus> it's obviously useful to be able to animate something rotating multiple times without having to use lots of waypoints
04:34 < dooglus> it's still tricky to convert from the old style to the new
04:35 < dooglus> if I load eyes.sif (after fixing synfig somehow to know it's "old style") and save it, I would expect it to save in "new style" without changing the animation, right?
04:35 < dooglus> so instead of having 177 and -168 for the angles, it should save using 177 and 192?
04:39 < dooglus> looks like r1150 is the culprit
04:39 < dooglus> it's between 1148 and 1158 anyway
04:49 < pxegeek> Yup - that's where my money was
04:50 < pxegeek> (I also had money on 1136, 1137, 1138, 1139....
04:50 < pxegeek> )
04:50 < dooglus> it's good to spread your bets
04:51 < dooglus> 1148 good; 1150 bad
04:51 < pxegeek> Time for a new canvas version! 
04:51 < pxegeek> Maybe for 0.61.08?  
04:51 < pxegeek> Or should we be daring and go for a 0.62?
04:52 < dooglus> I don't see how the new canvas version helps us
04:53 < dooglus> angles either wrap or they don't?
04:54 < dooglus> (I don't care what version number we use - and I'm not particularly bothered about making a new release either - not so much has changed since 0.61.07 I don't think.  maybe once a translation or two is ready it's worth doing?
04:54 < dooglus> )
04:57 < dooglus> 1149 good; 1150 bad
04:58 < pxegeek> Yes, I don't think we need a new release just yet...
05:00 < pxegeek> If canvas version = 0.1, 179 & -179 are 2 degrees apart
05:00 < pxegeek> If canvas > 0.2 then they're 358 degrees apart
05:00 < pxegeek> s/>/>=
05:01 < dooglus> if I load a canvas 0.1, edit it a little and save it, do I save a 0.2 or 0.1 canvas?
05:03 < dooglus> if I copy a layer from a 0.1 canvas and paste it into a 0.2 canvas, how does it get converted?
05:03 < pxegeek> With 0.61.07 release saves it as 0.1 canvas
05:03 < dooglus> sure.  0.61.07 only knows about 0.1
05:03 < pxegeek> With 0.61.08, it should make the fix and save it in the new world order.
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05:04 < pxegeek> 0.61.08 will only save version 0.2 canvases?  Unless you really want to support backwards compatibility extensivels
05:05 < dooglus> I was looking earlier at what synfig does already about versions
05:05 < pxegeek> Does it care yet?
05:05 < dooglus> there's very little in place to deal with versions, and what's there isn't working too well
05:05 < pxegeek> Sounds like group support :)
05:05 < dooglus> it kind of cares...  the 'outline' layer is on version 0.2
05:06 < pxegeek> Does the code still support outlines with version 0.1?
05:06 < dooglus> version 0.1 outlines have a 'width' parameter that differs from the 0.2 outlines by a factor of 2
05:06 < pxegeek> Ah
05:06 < pxegeek> But only saves version 0.2 outlines, right?
05:06 < dooglus> if you load a 0.1 outline, the width gets adjusted when you load it.  when you then save, it's saved as a 0.2 outline, with the width adjusted
05:06 < dooglus> yes
05:06 < pxegeek> Sounds good
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05:07 < dooglus> but if the width it linked to anything else (even if two outlines have their widths linked) then the adjustment *isn't* made, and the width ends up wrong
05:07 < pxegeek> Hey ZanQdo (PapaNoel!)
05:07 < ZanQdo> sup!
05:07 < ZanQdo> lol
05:07 < pxegeek> :)
05:08 < pxegeek> I can hear Santa's little helpers in the other room - I should probably go help out...
05:08 < ZanQdo> go!
05:09 < pxegeek> But within a canvas the versions should be consistent?  
05:09 < pxegeek> Do you lose traceability when you export a value?
05:09 < dooglus> are you talking about outlines?
05:09 < dooglus> or angles?
05:09 < pxegeek> I haven't played with it enough
05:09 < pxegeek> Yes :)
05:09 < dooglus> good
05:10 < dooglus> I think the versioning of layers is an idea that's not really been developed in synfig
05:10 < dooglus> genete suggested a 'time loop' conversion -
05:11 < dooglus> to allow each individual parameter of a layer to be looped independently
05:11 < dooglus> it's a good idea, but I'd like to tidy up the time loop layer first
05:11 < dooglus> it's less than intuitive at the moment
05:11 < dooglus> but I'd like any changes to be backward compatible, which it why I was looking at versioning
05:12 < pxegeek> Yes - as Synfig moves forwards, the potential for animations to go disastrously wrong increases expontentially.
05:13 < pxegeek> exponentially
05:13 < pxegeek> bedtime...
05:13 < dooglus> indeed
05:13 < dooglus> goodnight :)
06:07 < pxegeek> Ah- it looks like Santa's been already.  Norad was right - he is running ahead of schedule. 
06:07 < pxegeek> Goodnight!
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16:50 < Ceox> Merry Christmas, all!
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--- Log closed Wed Dec 26 00:00:24 2007