--- Log opened Fri Dec 21 00:00:24 2007
00:32  * genete goes bed
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03:29 < pxegeek> Evening all!
03:30 -!- pabs3 [n=pabs@ppp121-45-81-7.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #synfig
03:33 < pabs3> messages for genete:
03:33 < pabs3> genete: the changes in 1220/1221 only work with a laptop touchpad that allows horizontal scrolling (install the gsynaptics gui to turn it on)
03:33 < pabs3> genete: those issues you had with ffmpeg were due to conflicts - where you locally modified the code in the same spot as a new svn commit did
03:33 < pabs3> genete: to resolve them, edit the .cpp file that fails to build, remove the >>> ==== and <<<< and merge the two code bits then do "svn resolved foo.cpp"
03:56 < pxegeek> Hi pabs!  All moved?
03:56 < pabs3> moved - yes, have internet - no
03:56 < pabs3> moving again on boxing day too :)
03:58 -!- Cerin [n=chris@c-76-99-156-188.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
03:59 < pxegeek> !
03:59 < pxegeek> Sounds more fun than my boxing day.  
04:00 < pxegeek> Silly merkins don't realize that boxing day should be a holiday too.
04:00 < pabs3> :/
04:01 < pabs3> just found some code for windows _pipe/_spawnlp - should have a patch for you to test on the weekend
04:05 < pxegeek> Cool - I was just going to ask if you had a plan for that. 
04:06 < pxegeek> I may have found someone that can help us with the Mac packaging
04:06 < pxegeek> He claims to have Fink commit access
04:07 < pabs3> awesome!
04:07 < pxegeek> Is that a direction that would help?  
04:08  * pxegeek doesn't know if Fink is common for Mac users or just an extra step
04:09 < pabs3> its common for them to install Unix apps from fink/macports
04:10 < pxegeek> Judging by that reaction, I'll follow up with him
04:10 < pabs3> it wouldn't be a true MacOS installer/.app package though, that requires shipping gtk/etc too
04:10 < pabs3> but it would certainly be good to get synfig into a distro other than Debian/Ubuntu
04:10 < pxegeek> The trick is to catch his interest - he's playing with RFID tags right now...
04:10 < pabs3> ahh
04:11 < pxegeek> He mentioned that there was a GTK package in Fink
04:11 < pxegeek> for Fink? 
04:11 < pxegeek> Finkised?
04:11 < pabs3> :)
04:11 < pabs3> yeah, fink is like debian, just for macos/darwin rather than linux
04:12 < pabs3> I imagine they have ffmpeg/imagemagick and so on too
04:12  * pxegeek perusing Fink website
04:24 < pabs3> ok, gotta go offline, gonna rain soon
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04:29 < pxegeek> imagemagick, check
04:29 < pxegeek> ffmpeg check
04:29 < pxegeek> also openexr, libavcodec
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16:17 < ulrik> Hi everybody and merry christmas to you all!
16:17 < genete> hi ulrik !
16:18 < genete> merry xmas to you too!
16:23 < genete> ulrik: I've done some tutorials layely. Have you read them?
16:23 < rore> hi too
16:23 < rore> and merry christmas too, I won't have much time to connect in the next few days 
16:23 < rore> (saddly)
16:24 < genete> rore: so happy new year too!
16:24 < rore> hehe, I should be back for new year ;)
16:25 < rore> c ya !
16:25 -!- rore [n=rore@d77-216-217-125.cust.tele2.fr] has quit ["Bye"]
16:37 < dooglus> genete: I made a patch to randomise seeds
16:37 < dooglus> it shows up a funny new bug, maybe
16:37 < dooglus> I made 128 circles, each with a different seed for the position of the circle
16:38 < genete> hi dooglus. which one?
16:38 < dooglus> here's the 128 circles: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/random-circles.png
16:38 < dooglus> doesn't look very random, does it!
16:39 < genete> is that frame 0?
16:39 < dooglus> after the first second of animation, it looks random, but the starting configuration isn't
16:39 < dooglus> yes.  frame 0 is very regular
16:39 < genete> I'm interested to know how did you randomize the seeds. Maybe that's the problem?
16:40 < dooglus> I used (seconds since 1970) + rand()
16:40 < ulrik> genete: sorry i was away, no I have not done anything with synfig for a couple of days now, it's a pain to use it on leopard system, i'm waiting for apple to fix the core image thing
16:41 < dooglus> try it by hand with 10 or 20 circles, randomising the seeds by hand
16:41 < dooglus> do the centres lay on the same curve?
16:41 < genete> precise "randomize the seeds by hand"
16:42 < dooglus> I mean just using 1, 2, 3, 4, ...
16:42 < dooglus> or typing random numbers,
16:42 < dooglus> whatever
16:42 < dooglus> it shouldn't matter much
16:42 < genete> and all the circles sould be copies of the first, isn't it?
16:44 < dooglus> yes
16:44 < dooglus> they all are the same as each other, apart from the seed
16:45 < genete> ok
16:48 < genete> yeah... it seems to follow some curve!
16:52 < genete> http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/Genete/synfig/random.png
16:52 < genete> interesting...
16:52 < genete> dooglus: is the patch available?
17:01 < genete> dooglus: I'm having "Render failed" a lot of times. And a lot of "Received Refresh Ducks" at the console and the navigator doesn't refresh. With this 19 circles file...
17:01 < genete> something strange is happening
17:07 < dooglus> the same curve as I see :)
17:08 < genete> yes
17:08 < dooglus> genete: are you up-to-date with svn?
17:08 < genete> last night I was
17:08 < dooglus> ok
17:09 < genete> dooglus: I'm worry about the "Received Refresh Ducks" thing. It hangs synfigstudio a lot of times.
17:09 < genete> not crash but hang
17:10 < dooglus> I've not seen it
17:10 < dooglus> here, I mean.  I've seen it in your .swf animation :)
17:10 < dooglus> I'll check the random patch in
17:11 < genete> I'm with svn 1223
17:13 < genete> http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/Genete/synfig/refresh.png
17:13 < genete> http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/Genete/synfig/render-failed.png
17:14 < genete> notice the "Render failed" at bottom left
17:14 < genete> I obtain this just zooming in and out a little quick
17:23 < genete> dooglus: circular references are not caught by the code. Is that a bug or it should not be done?
17:23 < genete> for example: convert A=(LHS+RHS)*Scalar
17:24 < genete> then export A as (a)
17:24 < genete> now convert RHS to Substract (for example) and export the sub params
17:25 < genete> now connect the LHS to (a). it is a circular reference. Synfig crash
17:26 < genete> core dumped
17:39 < genete> dooglus: if you only zoom in or zoom out why is the navigator view refreshing? I'm not touching the layres! Have anyone modified something about the navigator lately? it refreshs when it is not needed.
17:40 < dooglus> genete: sorry, I was away tidying up the randomization patch.  it's committed now, r1224
17:41 < dooglus> I'll read what you've written and reply
17:42 < genete> does your navigator blinks when zoom in/out?
17:44 < dooglus> no, but it doesn't blink even when I edit the canvas
17:44 < dooglus> it just updates
17:45 < dooglus> if I edit the radius of a circle from 222 to 222.01, I don't see the navigator change at all, even though it will have been redrawn
17:45 < dooglus> there's no flicker
17:45 < genete> I see it sometimes completely empty and then, after a while it renders again the same 
17:46 < dooglus> what do you have for the 'single thread' setting?
17:47 < genete> it is check on
17:47 < genete> maybe I should check off
17:47 < CIA-37> synfig: dooglus * r1224 /synfig-core/trunk/src/modules/mod_noise/ (valuenode_random.cpp valuenode_random.h): When cloning a 'random' valuenode with a constant, non-exported seed, use a new random seed.
17:47 < dooglus> that might stop the flickering
17:48 < genete> oh yeah! the flickering stops
17:48 < genete> but that option is needed for windows version, isn't it?
17:49 < genete> (and the render of the main window is quicker! :) )
17:49 < dooglus> I don't know how much it helps the windows version
17:49 < genete> ok, so let's try the randomize thing.
17:51 < dooglus> do you find that you don't see the 'render failed' any more?
17:52 < genete> I'm building now. I tell you in a few minutes.
17:56 < dooglus> ok
17:56 < genete> ulrik: I'm sorry for your leopard problem. Hope you can solve it soon
17:56 < dooglus> the 'use single thread' was one of my attempts to fix 'the big bug'
17:58 < genete> dooglus: with "use single thread" off there apparently no more flickering and no more "Render failed"
17:58 < genete> testing the randomize now
18:04 < genete> very cool! thank you very much dooglus! this would help a lot to make more random things !
18:04 < genete> have you got any idea about the 0f alignment?
18:08 < dooglus> not yet
18:29 < dooglus> did you try various things like animating the seed then copying?  exporting the seed?  exporting the random convert itself, etc.?
18:29 < genete> not yet
18:29 < dooglus> I tested it quite a lot, then changed it a bit, so I'm not too sure it's right now
18:30 < genete> I wouldn't want to animate the seed. I don't know what does it means.
18:30 < dooglus> it doesn't mean much, other than that it changes over time...
18:31 < dooglus> I guess it means you can have two layer have the same seed for a while, then different seeds later
18:31 < genete> I rather prefer to play with Animation speed thing
18:31 < dooglus> I made 1000 circles with random seeds controlling the center positions
18:31 < dooglus> set the animation speed to 10 seconds
18:32 < dooglus> it's not just 0f that looks regular - 10s, 20s, 30s all look more regular than the times in between
18:32 < genete> what's regular for you? have any picture?
18:33 < dooglus> sure
18:34 < dooglus> random: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/37s8f.png
18:34 < dooglus> regular: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/40s.png
18:34 < dooglus> random: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/56s16f.png
18:34 < dooglus> regular: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/1m.png
18:36 < genete> it looks like if the 0f curve thing were repeated and rotated
18:36 < dooglus> yes
18:37 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/10s.png 20, 30, 40, 50 are all there now too
18:37 < dooglus> all kind of regular too, compared to the frames in between
18:38 < genete> curious
18:38 < dooglus> and http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/0f.png
18:39 < dooglus> I guess what it means is that the random number generator isn't very random?
18:40 < genete> it has been called historically pseudo random number generator...
18:41 < genete> but if you random generate a random seed the result should be super random, isn't it?
18:41 < dooglus> I saw some very poor looking random number generating code in synfig once.  I don't know if it's used or not.
18:54 < dooglus> the random number generation is just this:
18:54 < dooglus> 		static const uint32_t a(1664525);
18:54 < dooglus> 		static const uint32_t c(1013904223);
18:54 < dooglus> 		return next=next*a+c;
18:55 < dooglus> can that be the problem?
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19:45 < pxegeek> Hi Ulrik!
19:45 < pxegeek> Do you use Fink?
19:47 < ulrik> hi pxegeek! I have used it before but not know, it's as easy as the macport 
19:48 < pxegeek> I found someone that claims hehas Fink commit access - I'm going to see if I can get him interested in sponsoring Synfig
19:48 < ulrik> is there someone to build a synfig app for mac?
19:48 < ulrik> ahh, i see
19:49  * pxegeek doesn't know anything about Mac, except that we don't currently have a Mac installer
19:49 < ulrik> well fink is easy to use, just as the macport
19:49 < pxegeek> Is it a default install for Apple users or do they have to dig for it?
19:49 < ulrik> they have to dig for it
19:50 < ulrik> but it is an easy digging
19:50 < pxegeek> But once they've installed it, installing anything with it is click and sit back?
19:50 < ulrik> yes that is what i remember when i used it, yes
19:51 < pxegeek> OK.  I'm going to see if I can get Synfig on his radar...
19:51 < ulrik> that sounds great! good luck!  :) 
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20:10 < rore> tadada... (I left in a hurry, thinking I'll miss my train. And I was 15mn early :] )
20:33 < rore> hm... I don't think I can install synfig here (too old PC, and missing dependencies)
20:42 < ulrik> rore: I really like your street scene, is there something new on it's way?
20:44 < rore> I started to add some "glasses" on the windows. But the file stayed at home
20:44 < rore> (I'm at my mother's now)
20:47 < rore> I remember I made a few other changes too, but I don't remember what O_o
20:49 < ulrik> I'm looking forward to see the progress later... :) 
21:13 < rore> merry christmas (again), this time I'm really not sure I'll have the time to connect until the 27
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--- Log closed Sat Dec 22 00:00:20 2007