--- Log opened Wed Nov 21 00:00:29 2007
--- Day changed Wed Nov 21 2007
00:00 < harry_> I have been playing with the amount parameter
00:00 < harry_> I can export it and link it to one circle
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00:01 < harry_> but when i try to connect more circles at once it doesn't show connect, just link and edit waypoints
00:02 < genete> just convert the conflictive tangent to scale and export the Link vertex. Then link the Link to the correct tangent and set the scale to be -1 it corrects the problem...
00:02 < genete> harry_: link them all first and later connect one of them. Then all get connected.
00:03 < genete> ulrik: sorry I was outside. Did you understand what I mean about stitch Blines?
00:03 < harry_> is it still possible to make them appear one at the time if i link them?
00:04 < genete> If you link the Amount parameter and create a Constant waypoint to it, then yes. You should edit the waypoint interpolation  and select Constant. It is a "step" like  interpolation.
00:06 < genete> Amount = 0.0 -> Transparent (not visible) Amount = 1.0 then full visible. That's true for geometry layers. On effects layers (noise or blur for example) the Amount parameter has other meanings
00:07 < rore> It's time to change "Amount" into "Visibility" :p 
00:08 < genete> Yes. I would translate different depending on the context.
00:09 < genete> BTW. Someone could make a "Synfglish" to English translation... It would help to the no English that have not translated version for its language...
00:09 < genete> Amount is the first example.
00:13 < harry_> for some reason it doesn't work.
00:14 < harry_> if i link them and change the amount of one of them it works, but not with the exported value
00:14 < harry_> then it only works on the one i selected
00:15 < genete> have you got the exported value name written closed to the Amount paramter and between brakets?
00:15 < genete> brackets
00:18 < harry_> yes but only for the one that works
00:18 < harry_> the linked ones don't follow
00:18 < harry_> the exported value = 0, and all the others have their amount set to 1
00:19 < harry_> the light blue letters near amount indicate that the linking worked
00:21 < genete> Select all the ones that are not linked and also select the exported value at the Child list . Right click on the Amount parameter and select Link. See if it works
00:25 < harry_> i am not sure if i understand you correctly
00:26 < harry_> but i don't think it worked
00:26 < harry_> is it possible to disconnect more than one layer at a time?
00:26 < genete> Select all the layers that have the Amount not linked and also select the exported value at the Child list . Then Right click on the Amount parameter and select Link. See if it works
00:28 < harry_> right, got it
00:28 < genete> not available. Make a feature request.
00:28 < harry_> ok
00:28 < genete> harry_: did you solve the Amount issue?
00:29 < harry_> yep
00:29 < harry_> first connect one layer to the exported value and then link it to the others
00:30 < harry_> i tried it the other way around first, but was unsuccessful
00:30 < harry_> thanks
00:31 < genete> you're welcome.
00:31 < harry_> how can i add the constant waypoint?
00:31 < genete> just make the waypoint and right click over it and select Chang. Interp. Mode
00:31 < dooglus> see your main synfig toolbox window?
00:32 < dooglus> the 'TCB' at the bottom is the default waypoint type - change that to 'constant' and all waypoints will be constant from now on
00:32 < dooglus> or edit existing waypoints if you made them already
00:32 < genete> http://wiki.synfig.com/Sewing_Blines
00:32 < ulrik> genete: no, i have not opened the file yet, i'll do that later
00:32 < ulrik> hi dooglus!
00:33 < dooglus> genete: I think harry_ wants each circle to have a separately animated amount
00:33 < dooglus> genete: so each circle appears at a different time
00:33 < genete> Not he told us that he wanted them synchronized
00:34 < dooglus> oh, I must have read it wrong then
00:34 < harry_> they have to appear one at a time
00:34 < genete> dooglus: I've found a workaround to stitch non clockwise compatible Blines...
00:34 < harry_> that is why i asked if the linking would work
00:35 < genete> I'm so tired and go to bed by now. I'm making a tutorial to sew Blines but I'll finish it tomorrow.
00:36 < genete> See you !
00:36 < genete> night all!
00:36 < harry_> thanks a lot!
00:36 < genete> :)
00:36 < dooglus> night
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00:36 < dooglus> harry_: if you link them, they'll do the same thing at the same time
00:37 < dooglus> harry_: you can use the 'time offset' param on encapsulated layers to make the layers do the same thing but at a time offset - that might help you here
00:37 < harry_> ah, that's what i thought. ok so i need a different solution
00:37 < harry_> yeah that might work
00:38 < harry_> is the order of appearance the same as the order in the encapsulated layer?
00:40 < harry_> I can't find the time offset. Is it in the params tab?
00:42 < dooglus> 'time offset' is a parameter on the layer that is created when you encapsulate layers
00:42 < dooglus> on the 'Inline Canvas' layer (also known as 'Paste Canvas')
00:49 < harry_> yep found it
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00:55 < harry_> i am not sure how to use it. Can i just set a number of frames and change an attribute of the first layer in the encapsulated layer?
00:56 < harry_> so the others will follow after the no of frames
00:56 < harry_> or do i still have to link the layers
00:58 < dooglus> ok
00:58 < dooglus> the time offset just adds its value to the current time when rendering the encapsulated layers
00:59 < harry_> i see
01:02 < harry_> as a test i made five objects in one encapsulated layer
01:02 < harry_> i set amount to 1
01:03 < harry_> and time offset to 1s
01:03 < harry_> i linked the amount of the objects
01:04 < harry_> and went to animation mode to change amount from 0 to 1 in 2 seconds
01:04 < harry_> i am missing something, cause the time offset doesn't work
01:04 < harry_> the fade in does work
01:05 < harry_> any ideas?
01:11 < harry_> i also tried setting the amount on the encapsulated  layer, but i can not get it to work
01:12 < harry_> anyhow it is time to quit
01:12 < harry_> thanks for the help
01:12 < harry_> bye
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01:46 < ulrik> a question to all brilliante minded people, everytime i try to build i get an error for the "cairomm", even though i still can build the whole synfig package, what i wonder is: does the absent of "cairomm" make synfig behave badly?
01:48 < ulrik> when i run: jhbuild build gtkmm,  i get this cairomm error
01:48 < ulrik> does it make synfig behave badly?
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02:25 < ulrik> night everybody!  :) 
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02:47 < KiBi> http://people.debian.org/~igloo/popcon-graphs/index.php?packages=synfigstudio
02:47 < KiBi> studio is still confidential, but... :-)
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03:30  * pxegeek has lost his wife....  to Mass Effect
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06:05 < factor> ok anyone here?
06:05 < factor> how can I take out a base layer
06:05 < factor> when using the pencil
06:06 < factor> I draw a scetch of the item then go over it with the actual stroke
06:06 < factor> I was to eleminate the base penciling 
06:06 < factor> I dont see a way to undo a certian stroke
06:07 < factor> does anyone have a good method for doing this
06:13 < pxegeek> Hey - sorry busy in another window
06:14 < pxegeek> No easy way to do what you want...  sketch is simply that
06:14 < factor> heh
06:14 < pxegeek> I don't think it comes with an eraser
06:14 < factor> can sketch be put on to a layer or attached to it
06:14 < factor> heh
06:14 < factor> nope
06:14 < pxegeek> There's an undo last stroke, if that helps?
06:15 < factor> right could be made to undo a certian stroke
06:15 < pxegeek> No - sketch is its own thing
06:15 < factor> seems like it
06:15 < pxegeek> It even has its own save mechanism
06:16 < factor> shazbot
06:16 < factor> I do see show sketch
06:16 < pxegeek> If you're really desperate, you could save it, edit it with a text editor then reload it. 
06:16 < factor> I can do a sketch and then use the vector gfx on top of it and un show the sketch totaly may work
06:16 < pxegeek> You'd hav to have a pretty good idea of which stroke you wanted to delete though.....
06:17 < pxegeek> Yes - that's the idea of the workflow
06:17 < factor> would be a cool addon to synfig
06:17 < factor> gui option for that
06:17 < pxegeek> Sketch the design quickly
06:17 < pxegeek> then go over it with blines and draw
06:17 < factor> ok
06:17 < factor> that is what I need to do then.
06:18 < pxegeek> If you have an image you want to recreate in Synfig, you can import image files and trace over those too.
06:18 < pxegeek> i.e. if you had a drawing on paper, you could scan it in
06:19 < pxegeek> If you have feature requests, add them to the wiki or synfig sourceforge feature request
06:19 < pxegeek> Whatcha drawing? 
06:20 < factor> k
06:20 < factor> manga howtos for synfig
06:20 < pxegeek> Ah yes - I saw you mention the how to books earlier.
06:20 < factor> was looking at the goo tube vids and they mostly suck
06:20 < factor> :D
06:21 < factor> so I was goign to try to make a howto vid
06:21 < factor> and sample files.
06:21 < pxegeek> I'm compiling a demo reel (slowly) to showcase the best that's been done with synfig so far...
06:21 < pxegeek> Sweet!  The more neat animations we can show, the more people will discover Synfig
06:22 < factor> yeah I have seen the synfig dems wolf eye happy happy etc..
06:22 < factor> its really awesome
06:22 < pxegeek> Prologue is the best.
06:22 < factor> just complex to use like blender or even inkscape
06:22 < factor> but has to be
06:22 < factor> yup
06:22 < factor> that is the one i show
06:22 < pxegeek> I'm finding it easier than Blender, and I used that quite a bit.
06:22 < factor> it could work great with blender
06:23 < pxegeek> I still lack the artistic talent though....
06:23 < factor> blender has great option for mixing board 2d into 3d
06:23 < pxegeek> billboard?
06:23 < factor> have you seen the wagon demo and ox
06:24 < factor> for blender
06:24 < pxegeek> No - only the sheep.  Got a link?
06:24 < factor> hold on see if I can make it and upload it to my site.
06:27 < factor> this will take a bit found it just need the 2d images .
06:27 < pxegeek> This was the one I saw/played with briefly - http://screamyguy.net/sketchBoard/sketchBoard.htm
06:34 < pxegeek> Got to go to bed - I'll catch up with the logs later if you get to post it.
06:34 < pxegeek> 'night!
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06:54 < factor> k
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08:21 < pabs3> rore: bug us to change the strings!
09:12  * KiBi bugs3 pabs3.
09:13 < pabs3> :)
09:13 < rore> heh :) And yes, isn't there a way to say to gettext "don't mind the caps differences" ?
09:14 < pabs3> seems not
09:15  * pabs3 will finish #-devel backlog, then grep
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09:36 < pabs3> rore: where's this example string at?
09:36  * pabs3 hrrrms at ack-grep
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10:35  * KiBi \o/'s at grep.
10:36 < KiBi> pabs3: She's out for a while, back in less than an hour.
10:36 < pabs3> grep couldn't find it either
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11:30 < KiBi> o< back, rore
11:30 < rore> pabs3: that was just an example string, that's why it doesn't exists ;) But if you want some "real" example, there's things like "New Waypoint" and "Add Waypoint". Also "Delete Waypoint" and "Remove Waypoint" 
11:30 < rore> and lots of string with "ValueNode" "Valuenode" "Value Node" ...
11:30 < KiBi> vaLuE nOdE
11:32 < rore> It seems the naming isn't very consistent, depending on the strings :) 
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13:56 < pabs3> rore: I'll take a look at those tomorrow on my day off
13:56  * pabs3 zzz
13:59 < rore> good night (?) :)
15:01 < KiBi> yes
15:39 < rore> I need one of those multi-faced clocks, to know the time all around the world ;) 
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16:30 < pxegeek> 'morning rore
16:30 < pxegeek> It's 7:30am here :)
16:31 < pxegeek> Did I ever ask you if we could use your cat picture in the demo reel?  
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16:34 < Ceox> heyall
16:41 < rore> pxegeek: maybe you did, I don't remember, but sure you can use it ;)
16:41 < rore> hi Ceox 
16:42 < pxegeek> Thanks!
16:43 < pxegeek> 'Morning Ceox!
16:48 < Ceox> evening actually
17:05 < pxegeek> :) In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi "From a certain point of view..."
17:05 < pxegeek> What's cooking?  Anything interesting? 
17:15  * pxegeek gotta go to work :(
17:28 < Ceox> im TRYING to learn javascript
17:28 < Ceox> and i have SOME porblems
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19:11 < genete> pxegeek : Thanks for include my lightning into the demo reel... :)
19:15 < genete> pxegeek : Also the cutscene... but which one?
19:26 < genete> pxegeek : Ok. If you have troubles with the fonts please reload the file from this url. It is fixed: http://www.darthfurby.com/genete/synfig/cutscene.zip :)
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20:56 < genete> Zzzzzzzz
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21:00 < genete> hey! please read this tutorial and tell me if it is Intermediate or Advanced...
21:01 < genete> http://wiki.synfig.com/Sewing_BLines
21:01 < rore> (time to feed the cat, I'll look at it just after :) )
21:04 < genete> I'm planning to add more sections: Linking Non Merged Tangents and Dead End point
21:04 < genete> But first I should figure out how do to do it... :(
21:17 < rore> I'm creating several shapes, to test your tutorial
21:28 < genete> rore: sorry was out for a while...
21:28 < genete> and what's the result?
21:29 < rore> errr .... "Advanced", clearly :D
21:29 < genete> :)
21:30 < genete> Did you find it useful?
21:30 < rore> Yes, but it a little trick that's rather complex, so it's more likely to interest people that already knows rather well Synfig :)
21:31 < genete> Yes it wasn't obvious to discover by oneself
21:32 < genete> But at the end the important thing is that you can sew perfectly the Blines if you really need it. 
21:33 < genete> For quick sewing it can be used the Draw tool and the CTRL trick. Layer when realize that some vertex are not compatible then use the explained trick
21:34 < genete> I hope dooglus gets animated and make the implementation of the change of the sign of the tangent as a built in feature.
21:34 < genete> s/Layer/Later
21:40 < rore> are you still modifying that wiki page ? (so I could make some typo-correction, if you wish :) )
21:42 < genete> Yes I still modifying ...
21:43 < genete> please wait until I finish ;)
21:43 < rore> ok, no problem :) 
21:45 < genete> rore: do you find it hard to understand ? need more detailed explanations?
21:45 < rore> (Off topic: we should make animated christmas cards - that was my random thought of the day)
21:46 < genete> I was thinking on it from some days ago but time pass so quick!
21:47 < rore> genete: I had a doubt, in the solution part, I didn't know if I was supposed to work on vertices linked or unlinked; and tangents linked or unlinked
21:48 < genete> "Here are the steps you should perform before you do the link of tangents"
21:48 < rore> hmm ... ok, I must have read that too fast ^^'
21:48 < genete> the steps of the solution should be done before link. If done later then the link is lost and have to relink again
21:49 < genete> But vertex is not affected you can link it first or last
21:51 < rore> I wish there were a "swap tangent order" option that allows to link easily things the way you want :)
21:52 < genete> I'm making this tutorial to engourage dooglus to do it!
21:52 < genete> encourage
21:53 < rore> there's a "rotate order" option but I'm not sure that it does something
21:54 < genete> It rotates vertices order 1,2,3,4,5 becomes 2,3,4,5,1
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22:00 < rore> ah, ok
22:01 < rore> ahaha... fun stuff here
22:03 < rore> genete: when you link some vertices, for example, is there a light blue "DYN" message that appears close to the vertex name ? (like in http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb207/rore4wiki/Synfig/flower_5.png )
22:03 < rore> well, is it really written "DYN" like in my image ?
22:05 < rore> (or can anyone here check what the blue word is?)
22:05 < genete> I would bet that ot is not DYN I bet it is DAM 
22:06 < rore> ahah, same here. It's DYN written reversed (DYN with horizontal mirror)
22:07 < rore> I have no idea why that word is now inverted, but still that makes me laught :)
22:07 < genete> Yes mirrored DYN
22:07 < genete> :)
22:08 < genete> lol
22:08 < genete> watch inside synfigstudio/images
22:08 < genete> the DYN is inverted!
22:10 < genete> The Real icon too!!!
22:11 < rore> should be renamed p?u  :)
22:11 < rore> heh, someone drank too much before a commit ^^
22:12 < genete> hey how did you made the reversed "y" ? with lambda?
22:12 < genete> he he and I know who is...
22:16 < genete> please open the source /synfigstudio/images/real_icon.sif the Text files gets rendered reversed!
22:18 < rore> genete: I made it with http://www.revfad.com/flip.html
22:18 < genete> ???u??
22:18 < genete> ja!
22:20 < rore> but if I add a text layer it looks ok, hmm... weird
22:21 < rore> wait, if I add a text layer in a new file, it's ok. But if I add a text layer inside the read_icon.sif for example, it's inverted
22:21 < rore> huh ...
22:22 < genete> yes, and it is sif and not sifz.. maybe it means something. Maybe dooglus had made something in the code that try to solve the 180 rotation for text layers that is not compatible with old sif files...
22:23 < rore> Ok, the properties of the file seems to be messed up
22:23 < rore> Look at the Edit > Properties > Image Area
22:24 < rore> the values for Top Left are both negative, and the values for Bottom Right are both positive
22:24 < genete> TL is BR ...
22:24 < genete> and viceversa
22:24 < genete> cool
22:25 < genete> it is a good way to make mirrored animations.
22:25 < rore> That's even worse, TL.y is BR.y :)
22:27 < genete> huh impossible to correct!
22:27 < rore> yeah, it crashes, here
22:28 < genete> a negative canvas is not a good idea...
22:35 < rore> changing the file by hands (with vim) works
22:39 < rore> I'll see that after. Now : sleep 
22:40 < rore> good night
22:40 < genete> night rore 
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23:07 < genete> echo
23:07 < genete> o???
23:08 < genete> ???o
23:15 < MangoFusion> haha
23:26 < dooglus> genete: I made that convert type, but it was kind of ugly due to the duck issue I showed you
23:27 < dooglus> genete: I'm about 2 hours behind in the logs at the moment, but catching up no doubt.
23:27 < genete> dooglus: :) sorry for write so much... I'm Spanish....
23:28 < dooglus> genete: we decided that a simple 'reverse vertex order' isn't much use didn't we, and that tangent-by-tangent is the way to go
23:30 < genete> so what does that means exactly? that my tutorial is going to the dump or realy is the way to go?
23:30 < genete> really
23:33 < dooglus> genete: I didn't get time to read it yet
23:33 < genete> don't worry.
23:34 < dooglus> genete: what I am saying is that the feature you want added works on tangents, not on blines right?
23:34 < genete> yes only on tangents
23:34 < dooglus> individual tangents (or pairs of tangents)
23:34 < dooglus> not one switch for a whole line
23:34 < genete> individual and pairs if they are merged
23:35 < genete> ah no not the whole bline please
23:35 < genete> that's not make sense
23:35 < genete> it would only be valid to sew two blines only
23:35 < dooglus> we agree
23:35 < genete> if more than two involved then it wouldn't work
23:36 < dooglus> yes
23:36 < genete> so I found a workaround to do that manually.
23:36 < genete> and made a wiki page :)
23:36 < dooglus> ok
23:36 < dooglus> using a scalar convert with scale -1?
23:36 < genete> right
23:36 < dooglus> ok
23:37 < genete> for sure the wiki page is submitted to all kind of style corrections and typos everywere....:)
23:37 < genete> like usual... :(
23:39 < dooglus> what about the upside-down icons?
23:40 < genete> the problem is at the sif file. rore discovered it and tell me that editing the file with a text editor can be corrected
23:40 < dooglus> I think what happened is I fixed the text layer so it renders up the right way, even for .bmp renders
23:41 < dooglus> fixing that bug shows up a problem with some of the icons, which have 'upside down' canvases :)
23:41 < genete> something like that was what I said
23:42 < genete> I think you should fix the sif files of icons to be sifz
23:42 < dooglus> when I make a new canvas, the .sif file has this:
23:42 < dooglus> view-box="-4.000000 2.250000 4.000000 -2.250000"
23:42 < dooglus> and real_icon.sif has:
23:42 < dooglus> view-box="-1.400000 -1.400000 1.400000 1.400000"
23:42 < genete> there are two bad icons: real_icon and DYN icon
23:43 < dooglus> integer_icon.sif has:
23:43 < dooglus> view-box="-2.000000 2.000000 2.000000 -2.000000"
23:43 < dooglus> + - - +
23:43 < dooglus> ok
23:43 < dooglus> how'd I manage to get that backwards?
23:46 < dooglus> checking for .sif files with bad view-box values shows 7 of them
23:46 < genete> copy the layer and paste in a new canvas. It would work
23:46 < dooglus> about_dialog.sif canvas_icon.sif canvas_pointer_icon.sif color_icon.sif real_icon.sif valuenode_icon.sif vector_icon.sif
23:47 < genete> if you copy the layers and paste them into a new canvas the problem is solved. Then modify the canvas values to get same dimensions than the original.
23:48 < dooglus> I think I just need to move the '-' from the 2nd view-box param to the 4th
23:48 < dooglus> I don't understand why about_dialog renders OK with a backwards canvas though
23:49 < dooglus> ah - it's because it's a sub-canvas that's backwards ("Sphere") not the main canvas
23:50 < genete> p?s????? u???q ?? l??? I
23:50 < dooglus> I see a lot of question marks
23:50 < dooglus> I don't think my IRC client likes accented character
23:50 < dooglus> s
23:51 < genete> http://www.revfad.com/flip.html
23:51 < genete> I see it perfectly reversed
23:51 < genete> fliped
23:55 < timonator> ?no? ??? ?o? 'oll??
23:55 < genete> timonator: very well thanks :)
23:55 < timonator> hah
23:56 < genete> tutorial is finished. Ill put in advanced ones. Please comments are welcome. http://wiki.synfig.com/Sewing_BLines
--- Log closed Thu Nov 22 00:00:33 2007