--- Log opened Tue Oct 02 00:00:39 2007
00:00 < genete> OK thanks. If you modify a header file it would affect to all the cpp files that include that header isn't it?
00:00 < dooglus> genete: sorry, it's 'A', for 'Added' when there's a new file
00:01 < dooglus> genete: the build scripts are clever enough to know about the dependencies
00:01 < dooglus> genete: you'll see now that although I only touched 3 files, one of them was a header than requires the rebuild of 5 or 6 files
00:02 < genete> or more depending on how many times the file is included
00:02 < CIA-28> synfig: dooglus * r806 /synfig-core/trunk/src/synfig/layer_shape.cpp: Fix typos.
00:02 < CIA-28> synfig: dooglus * r807 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (workarea.cpp renderer_timecode.cpp workarea.h): Keep the red 'animate edit mode' border and the current keyframe name from leaving artifacts when scrolling.
00:02 < CIA-28> synfig: dooglus * r808 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/workarea.cpp: Only fix the red border if we're not using the Gtk frame background color to draw the red border.
00:03 < genete> dooglus: synfigstudio is taking a long time to build...
00:03 < dooglus> genete: interesting
00:04 < dooglus> genete: files like synfig-studio/src/gtkmm/.deps/synfigstudio-workarea.Po record which header files were used to build each source file
00:04 < dooglus> genete: what .cpp files is it rebuilding
00:04 < genete> for synfig took it more time to bootstrap and configure than to compile and link. But overall time was very small
00:07 < dooglus> genete: you don't need to bootstrap and configure, either
00:08 < dooglus> genete: just a 'make' and 'sudo make install' is usually enough
00:08 < dooglus> genete: and I was wrong earlier - my change to the header file means it needs to rebuild 33 .cpp files
00:09 < genete> I'm sending you my synfigstudio-workarea.Po file
00:09 < genete> can you accept it?
00:12 < dooglus> I don't think I can
00:12 < dooglus> I don't see any request to accept it
00:12 < dooglus> I don't think it will be any different than mine, either
00:13 < genete> Anyway, that file was 2702 lines long...
00:14 < dooglus> mine's 2724
00:14 < dooglus> it uses a lot of library headers
00:15 < genete> that's fine.
00:15 < genete> anyway it is rebuild .
00:15 < genete> let me test the red border issue
00:15 < dooglus> ok
00:15 < dooglus> (a similar issue was happening with the keyframe name - if you're on a keyframe, the name is displayed in the workarea, and that was causing a mess too)
00:17 < dooglus> you still see the red border dancing around a bit as you scroll, but I don't know how to fix that
00:18 < genete> It works as it should. A little "dancing" but always fixed. Thanks you very much. You're so generous.
00:18 < dooglus> did you know that if you hold control and turn the mouse wheel, the workarea will zoom in to the point the mouse is pointing at?
00:20 < genete> Hehe, and did you knw that if you press SHIF and turn the mouse wheel it scrools horizontally? (just discovered)
00:20 < dooglus> yes.  I found that in the code today
00:20 < genete> The about dialog window should refelect the just compiled time?
00:20 < dooglus> it should, but it doesn't
00:21 < dooglus> the time is noted when you bootstrap
00:21 < genete> I have the compile time form the lat time I did a full build 
00:21 < dooglus> if you bootstrap each time, and configure, then maybe the time will be correct - I don't care about the time, so I never re-bootstrap unless I have to
00:22 < genete> But I did a bootstrap, configure make sudo make install! I have not changed my scripts.
00:22 < genete> My scripts are a copy of the build instructions from the wikik
00:23 < genete> except the EXPORT=/usr/... that I make only once manually
00:23 < genete> I meant export INCLUDE= etc...
00:25 < dooglus> ok, I've not looked at the about box at all.
00:25 < genete> dooglus: how is your headache going on?
00:25 < dooglus> I think it needs changing completely anyway - you know, to be 'about' synfig
00:26 < dooglus> I took some drugs & it's kind of going
00:26 < genete> Wish you be better soon.
00:26 < genete> Now its my bed time.
00:26 < genete> See you!
00:26 < genete> Bye
00:27 < genete> dooglus: Take care
00:27 < genete> ;-)
00:27 < genete> good night all! (bye ulrik!)
00:28 < KiBi> ++ genete ;)
00:28 < dooglus> night
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 02 01:35:37 2007
--- Log opened Tue Oct 02 01:35:45 2007
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03:58 < pxegeek> Evening all!
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04:38 < pxegeek> 'night all!
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05:35 < Zelig> Heya
05:54 < Zelig> Apperantly the upload I did earlier didn't take. The video should be up now.
05:54 < Zelig> http://www.hoodyhoo.com/toons/syNfig01_beta.ogg
05:55 < Zelig> wrong..
05:55 < Zelig> http://www.hoodyhoo.com/toons/syNfig01_beta1.ogg
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08:15 < ZanQdo> Zelig: amazing ;D
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08:24 < Zelig> ZanQdo: Thanks. There's still more to do. Titles and sound fx.
08:24 < ZanQdo> :)
08:25 < Zelig> Plus there's some tweaking to the animation here and there that needs to be done. But at least the big part is done.
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08:41 < ulrikboden> Zelig: Wov, i just saw your syNfig01_beta1.ogg, great work, and funny!! :D 
08:50 < Zelig> Thanks Ulrik. I can't wait to unleash this thing once I get it really completed.
08:50 < ulrikboden> will you have sound to it as well?
08:54 < Zelig> Yeah. I put the clips together in Cinelerra and I'm going to make a list and start hunting for sounds to drop in there.
08:55 < ulrikboden> nice!
08:57 < Zelig> It's good that it's funny at this stage, but sound can really help make this thing funnier, like getting a really got 'hit' sound for when the ball hits the boid, and so forth.
08:58 < ulrikboden> Yes, sound can really make it happen even more
08:59 < Zelig> Or a good 'splat' sound when the boid drops into Sy's hand.
09:03 < ulrikboden> and maybe some whirling sound when you don't the boid, but you can imagine it's on it's way
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09:04 < ulrikboden> or something it's on it's way
09:04 < ulrikboden> i mean
09:05 < Zelig> Yeah. some 'whoosh' sounds.. 
09:05 < ulrikboden> right
09:06 < Zelig> Yeah. I'll need those too. for various parts.. 
09:07 < ulrikboden> Zelig: where are you living?
09:07 < Zelig> I live in Las Vegas, NV
09:08 < ulrikboden> I see, so it's 'night time for you
09:08 < ulrikboden> here it's in the morning, i'm in sweden
09:08 < Zelig> Yeah, it's getting close to bedtime for me.
09:10 < Zelig> I tweaked a few things in the Sy, Fig and ball scene and I'm seeing if I can get a re-render out before I must sleep.
09:10 < Zelig> Sweden. How's the weather in Sweden right now?
09:12 < ulrikboden> it's getting colder now, we have 10 degrees Celsius and at the moment it's cloudy and grey
09:13 < ulrikboden> how's weather Las Vegas?
09:15 < Zelig> It's starting to get colder here. The last few days have been nice thought.. around 70 degrees Farenheit
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09:28 < Zelig> Well, now it really is time for bed, but I just uploaded a new version of the file that tweaks some of the animation. Night all.
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15:17 < CIA-28> synfig: dooglus * r810 / (2 files in 2 dirs): When the user moves a canvas' time slider, update the time sliders of any open child canvas' workareas.
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15:32 < CIA-28> synfig: dooglus * r811 /synfig-core/trunk/src/synfig/valuenode_animated.cpp: Commented the "Adjust for time" code in valuenode_animated.cpp while trying to understand what it's doing.
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16:03 < genete> Hi all! good evening.
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16:07 < Zelig> Heya all
16:09 < genete> dooglus: I've just tested the parent child time cursor sincrhonization and it works so well.
16:09 < genete> although... we did not mention yesterday that child and parent project times can be different...
16:10 < genete> I've set my child worakrea to a lenght of 4 seconds
16:10 < genete> and my parent workarea to 20 seconds
16:10 < dooglus> Zelig: hi!
16:10 < dooglus> Zelig: that .ogg is looking good
16:10 < dooglus> Zelig: did you consider using synfig itself to edit the pieces together?
16:11 < genete> when I drag the timeline of the parent beyond 8 seconds the child layers stops to move...
16:11 < dooglus> genete: I noticed something that doesn't work:  if you have a canvas with a child canvas and a grandchild canvas, then moving the slider in the child doesn't update the grandchild
16:11 < genete> Zelig: Hi! (sorry)
16:11 < Zelig> dooglus: No, I wasn't sure how to do that. Plus I want to add sound fx next and I didn't know how that would work either.
16:11 < dooglus> genete: although updating the grandparent updates both the child and the grandchild
16:12 < dooglus> Zelig: I'm not sure either, and I'm not even sure it works properly, but since this is a showcase piece for synfig, it might be best to use synfig as much as possible in it
16:12 < dooglus> Zelig: getting sound working in synfig is definitely on my list of things to look into
16:13 < genete> dooglus: did not test that case yet
16:13 < dooglus> genete: hopefully I'll fix it soon
16:14 < dooglus> genete: other than that, it seems to work well with pastecanvas time_offsets and time loops
16:14 < Zelig> dooglus: yeah, it's one of the reasons I didn't do a piece with any dialog. Not even sure if Synfig can handle multiple sound files.
16:14 < genete> I guess it would be a matter of make a recursive call or something like that
16:14 < genete> dooglus: good to know
16:15 < dooglus> genete: it's already recursive - that's how the grandparent canvas can update the grandchild
16:15 < dooglus> genete: the problem is that canvases aren't stored heirarchically
16:16 < genete> And did you test if it works for child and grand child only? I mean not touch the grand parent
16:17 < dooglus> genete: that's the case that doesn't work
16:17 < genete> It doesn't.
16:17 < genete> ah
16:17 < genete> I missunderstood
16:18 < genete> Zelig: good animation yours!
16:18 < genete> Zelig: how did you made the change of scene? two separated files and cinelerra edition?
16:19 < Zelig> genete: Exactly.
16:20 < genete> Didn't you considered to put them into separated paste canvases and play with their visibility?
16:21 < dooglus> genete: did you know you can use a single paste canvas?
16:21 < dooglus> genete: the 'canvas' parameter of a pastecanvas is animate-able
16:21 < dooglus> genete: so you can use that to switch scenes
16:22 < Zelig> So how would I start a scene later..
16:22 < dooglus> Zelig: the pastecanvas layer has a 'time offset' param
16:22 < Zelig> Oooh. 
16:22 < genete> Ah yes I remember. Anyway both canvases (one per scene) should be created and exported
16:22 < dooglus> Zelig: oh, I meant to say...
16:23 < dooglus> Zelig: I found a bug yesterday that was making 'linear' waypoints non-linear, so I fixed it
16:23 < Zelig> So a paste canvas can hold an entire peace?
16:23 < Zelig> pIece?
16:23 < dooglus> I'm wondering if it has changed your sy'N'fig animation at all
16:23 < dooglus> Zelig: a paste-canvas holds a canvas, which can be anything
16:24 < genete> synfig is a box of surprises... :)
16:24 < dooglus> Zelig: and it can switch between canvases when it wants to - just animate its 'canvas' parameter, and it will switch between scenes
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16:25 < Zelig> Ooooooh. That could work... I'd still have to use a video editor to drop sound effects into it...
16:26 < dooglus> Zelig: it's worth a try anyway
16:26 < Zelig> So so how exactly do I prepare a scene for paste canvas?
16:26 < dooglus> Zelig: remember to use 'constant' waypoints when setting the time-offset - you don't want the time-offset changing between waypoints
16:27 < dooglus> Zelig: just encapsulate the whole scene, select the new layer and export its canvas
16:27 < Zelig> dooglus: Oh yes. I had the same thing when I was dealing with Time Loop
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16:29 < dooglus> Zelig: you discovered the default interpolation menu in the toolbox, right?
16:31 < dooglus> Zelig: I guess it's not as simple as I was suggesting.  I'll write a wiki page about editing scenes together - a tutorial I guess.
16:31 < Zelig> dooglus: the pulldown menu that says "TCB" under all the tools? yes.
16:32 < dooglus> Zelig: yes.  that's the default interpolation type used when making waypoints
16:32 < Zelig> dooglus: that could help..
16:32 < dooglus> Zelig: much like all the other defaults in that toolbox (colors, gradient, width, etc)
16:32 < CIA-28> synfig: dooglus * r812 /synfig-core/trunk/src/synfig/valuenode_animated.cpp: Tidying.
16:32 < CIA-28> synfig: dooglus * r813 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/synfigapp/canvasinterface.cpp: Changing the time slider on a child canvas wasn't updating the grandchild canvas' time slider. Now it does.
16:35 < Zelig> I still have to add a title and credit frame.
16:36 < Zelig> "Catch" with Sy 'n' Fig
16:37 < dooglus> that can be done with synfig though. right?
16:38 < Zelig> dooglus: oh yeah. There's a text function in the layers, I saw it.
16:38 < Zelig> dooglus: we'll have to see how it handles text now.
16:39 < Zelig> Anyway, I have to start the day and get to work. (7:38 am) here in Las Vegas. :D
16:40 < dooglus> Zelig: is it OK to use your sy'n'fig .sifs as examples in the tutorial?
16:41 < Zelig> Oh yeah. Go ahead.
16:41 < Zelig> Anyway.. gotta go.
16:41 < dooglus> Zelig: OK.  So I'll give it a go editing the scenes together.  Ttyl
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16:50 < genete> see you this evening! bye!
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18:49 < dooglus> guess what's one of the 45 best freeware design programs...
18:49 < dooglus> that's right!  Synfig Studio 0.61.05!
18:49 < dooglus> ( http://www.snap2objects.com/2007/07/20/45-best-freeware-design-programs/ )
18:50 < zoyd> woohoo
18:50 < dooglus> I guess they tried Synfig Studio 0.61.06 but it didn't crash enough
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22:47 < genete> Hi!
22:48 < genete> dooglus: your Switching Scenes tutorial is fantastic and Zelig drawings are more than nice!
22:48 < dooglus> genete: hi.  I'm correcting your 'Star Layer' writeup, but the word "Gamming" has got me stuck...
22:48 < genete> I continue killing wanted pages. http://wiki.synfig.com/Star_Layer
22:49 < genete> Please give it a proper name
22:49 < dooglus> genete: what was your intention?
22:49 < dooglus> do you mean like "game-ing"?  playing?
22:49 < genete> Unusual uses of stars
22:49 < genete> sorry for the bestiality
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22:49 < genete> game ing
22:49 < dooglus> like 'playing around'?
22:50 < genete> that's perfect!
22:50 < dooglus> bestiality is something else again...
22:50 < genete> oops
22:50 < genete> ouch my poor english
22:50 < dooglus> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestiality's_Best
22:51 < genete> LOL
22:52 < ulrikboden> hi everybody! :) 
22:53 < genete> Hi!
22:54 < genete> dooglus: default... not defaul...
22:55 < genete> Ouch! I'm embarrassed...
23:00 < dooglus> don't worry about it.
23:00 < dooglus> you should see how well I write in Spanish :)
23:00 < dooglus> I like the 'winding style' thing you discovered for stars
23:01 < dooglus> that wasn't intentional when I added it - I was only meaning it to work for regions :)
23:01 < dooglus> I just made http://wiki.synfig.com/Winding_Style_Parameter and linked to your star example
23:05 < genete> I asked my self how in the hell a star can have winding style? and I played with the radius
23:07 < genete> I have a proposal:
23:07 < genete> what do you think on include a level of knowledge to the tutorials?
23:08 < genete> I mean, for example Following a Bline could be called medium-expert users
23:09 < genete> Like Flower animation is now Basic tutorial 
23:10 < genete> Maybe in the description from the table and somewhere at the beggining of the tutorial?
23:10 < dooglus> we could order the tutorials by 'difficulty level'
23:10 < dooglus> maybe split the table into 2 or 3 parts for different levels?
23:11 < dooglus> you wouldn't want a beginner struggling with that 'bline' tutorial, I agree
23:11 < genete> That's a good idea
23:12 < genete> the way is not the important thing, the important one is decide what level have each one.
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23:15 < genete> Getting Started, Animation Basics, Adding Layers, How do I? and creating shapes may be "Beginners"
23:16 < genete> Flower Animation and Building a magnifying glass maybe "Experienced" or "Amateurs"
23:17 < genete> And Walk cycle, Following a Bline and Reusing animations maybe "Experts"
23:17 < genete> Please tellme the proper english names...
23:18 < genete> (Switching scenes also expert)
23:24 < ulrikboden> I noticed .png works now at the wiki :D 
23:26 < dooglus> yeah
23:26 < dooglus> I wonder if someone fixed it
23:26 < dooglus> genete: I think I'd prefer we classify the tutorials, not the users
23:27 < dooglus> "Introductary", "Intermediate", "Advanced" or something?
23:27 < dooglus> genete: go ahead and split them up how you think best
23:28 < genete> I'll put tutorial levels not user levels: Basic, Intermediate, Advanced
23:28 < dooglus> genete: note that some of the tutorials are kind of linked saying things like "in the next tutorial...", so it would be worth keeping those in the same order, so they still follow on
23:29 < dooglus> genete: I didn't look at them recently, but I think that's still true
23:29 < genete> Don't worry, I only would add a column. don't want to mess up the table...
23:29 < dooglus> did you ever close one animation window and notice that you couldn't save the other window any more?  sometimes 'save' (and almost everything else in the caret menu) gets disabled when you close a window
23:33 < ulrikboden> hey, great new tutorial, "switching scenes", congratulations to how ever wrote it! :) 
23:33 < dooglus> ulrikboden: that was me
23:33 < dooglus> genete: well done spotting my 'defaul'typo :)
23:33 < ulrikboden> dooglus: well done!
23:33 < genete> Tutorial level column added...
23:35 < genete> dooglus: Ah yes, 'typos' my dear friends....
23:38 < genete> dooglus: One crucial question:
23:39 < genete> When you import a file (by Caret-> File-> Import) is there any way to maintain it linked to the file?
23:39 < dooglus> genete: yes, I think if you don't export that canvas, it says as a file reference
23:39 < dooglus> so just encapsulate the imported layer, and export the encsapsulation
23:40 < genete> Woohooo
23:40 < dooglus> I'm sure entirely sure, but I think that's how it works
23:40 < genete> So If I modify the imported file it would be reflected into the other animations that uses the imported file?
23:43 < dooglus> I believe so.
23:43 < dooglus> I've just added a paragraph at the end of http://wiki.synfig.com/Switching_Scenes about it.  Maybe you could check whether what I've written is actually true :)
23:44 < ulrikboden> what do you think, is it a bad idea to have the "z depth" layer parameter linked to zoom in some way, i mean if you have one object infront of another and then move it behind with "z depth" it would also shrink ?
23:45 < ulrikboden> and vice versa
23:46 < genete> WOOHOO!!! WOOHOO!!! (sorry ulrik but I'm happy for the imported file) I've tested and it works!!!!!
23:46 < ulrikboden> so you could see that it moved along the z axel, no problems genete, i'm happy for you as well
23:47 < dooglus> ulrikboden: I don't see why you shouldn't link them
23:47 < genete> ulrikboden: did you mean like the 3D camera does in Anime Studio?
23:47 < dooglus> ulrikboden: you would have to use a negative scale though I think - more zoom == less depth
23:48 < dooglus> ulrikboden: I don't think synfig should do it automatically though - some things get bigger without getting closer
23:48 < ulrikboden> ok, i see
23:50 < ulrikboden> genete: yes just like the camera work i mean
23:51 < dooglus> ulrikboden: we should get rid of one of the magnifying glass tutorials - they're both the same aren't they?
23:53 < ulrikboden> yes that's what i thought to, i think we should delete the "new" one since .png images work now and you have made the languge much better in the other, thank you btw :) 
23:53 < genete> ulrikboden: but the objects can be behind the camera in Anime Studio... Here they are always in front of the camera so if they are centerd with the center of the layer then they are always visible and when you zoom so much the would cover the whlole canvas instead of get back of the camera...
23:53 < ulrikboden> so how do i get rid of it, just edit and erase all that's inside?
23:54 < ulrikboden> genete: you're right, i didn't think so long :) 
23:55 < genete> dooglus: Are you prone to add more convert types?
23:55 < genete> I have some in my pocket
23:56 < ulrikboden> hehe, synfig is an amazing app, it's so clever to make use of it the way in "switching layers", i get surprised all the time
23:57 < dooglus> genete: sure, why not
23:57 < dooglus> ulrikboden: did you try following that tut?
23:57 < genete> Let me add them at the wiki and you'll see
23:57 < dooglus> ulrikboden: one thing that seems bad is you can't see the waypoints created when you switch canvases
23:58 < dooglus> the timeline shows the waypoints *inside* the current child canvas, rather than in the pastecanvas you're working with
23:58 < ulrikboden> dooglus: i have not yet, but i understand how it's done, and i opened the "mixed" file and had a look
23:59 < genete> dooglus: I followed the Switching scenes tutorial and agree with you. Can it be corrected?
23:59 < dooglus> genete: I expect so.  All you'll need is a text editor and lots of patience ;)
23:59 < genete> =)
--- Log closed Wed Oct 03 00:00:00 2007